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(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: mpd61

Ready for this;

Lawyer for the State Community Colleges says that MGL Chapter 15A/s.22 and 73/s.18 don't grant police powers.................
He also says the "layboard of trustees" doesn't even understand those statutes.....
Bottom line= we only derive our police authority as SSPO's under CH22C/s.63

He won't even acknowledge the recent legislation (SB#2132) signed by the governor.

What do you people think?

Posted by: 94c

I think colleges want you to provide security and not play cop

Posted by: j809

Woody, have the lawyer call Chief Tillinghast, he will explain all to him and beta some sense into him too.

Posted by: trel

after all that work of passing that legislation why does this not surprise me. what are these people thinking???

Posted by: Irish Wampanoag

James Brown is the hardest working person in hollywood however the James Brown the attorney for State and Community College is a boob! I dont know where he got his law degree but my suggestion for him is to get a refund!

Posted by: Macop

94c they are not playing cop, the ARE cops, don't you get it????????

obviously not

Posted by: capepd

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94c

I think colleges want you to provide security and not play cop

I think (sadly) I have to agree with this post..Sorry guys...

Posted by: Crvtte65

Let's try and keep this on the topics of the above laws. If the security thing continues, the thread will be locked.

Posted by: 94c

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macop

94c they are not playing cop, the ARE cops, don't you get it????????

obviously not

I got it a long time ago. Loosen up your panties a bit. I was merely speaking from a
college's liberal perspective.

Posted by: mpd61

What really kills me is how they choose to focus on the SSPO thing as the be-all, end-all. I don't think ANY of the State and Community colleges even need SSPO to operate as police departments!

Posted by: mopar6972

i think they have very specific in mind. Theyre probably going to pull ... well we have never interpreted S15a 22/73 18 in that way ( allowing MV related police powers) so the campus cops have been misusing it .. The point will be to negate the recently passed law by claiming that the campus police departments have gone above and beyond the original scope of their power( which they believe is 22c 63)
A cute ploy to try and say the BOT's dont understand their OWN statues.. Somehow I find that rather suspect. Should be interesting to see what happens

Posted by: Sgt Jack

This is just par for the course..someone else that has their head up their ass..Like every other idiot I deal with that can't grasp the concept that were police officers... Oh well F*ck em ..I'm still going to be putting cuffs on people..

Posted by: sinker

Where did this come form?

Posted by: new guy

I noticed that Ch 73 Sec 18 doesn't include Community Colleges in the wording. Is there anything significant to that or am I just reading into something that isn't there ?

Posted by: mopar6972

Chp 73 is state and community colleges. The use of the word "state" further into the sections includes both state and community colleges.

Posted by: new guy

Quote:

Originally Posted by mopar6972

Chp 73 is state and community colleges. The use of the word "state" further into the sections includes both state and community colleges.

I must have missed it. Thanks.

Posted by: spdawg0734

In speaking to a few University police officers, specifically BC/BU/Harvard, it is apparent that the management of those colleges do not want them to police in the manner that they should even in their own campuses. The also do not get much support on complaints. Remember Daddies and Momies are paying an average of $30,000 plus for their kids to attend, and most colleges care more about that than backing their officers. I was shocked at the way some of these kids treat them with disrespect and the restraint that they deal with them. I know it is a great job specially for retirement for the benefits of college for the kids but, I would not want their job for anything in the world. I dont know if things are any better in State Colleges. So this move by these colleges does not surprise me.
Stay Safe

Posted by: extremesgs

interesting note

I've noticed that most other states refer to police/peace officers, and all rules apply to same. This state has exceptions to exceptions, and different rules for almost each and every entity that has "police officers".
welcome to Massachusetts...

Posted by: 94c

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdawg0734

In speaking to a few University police officers, specifically BC/BU/Harvard, it is apparent that the management of those colleges do not want them to police in the manner that they should even in their own campuses. The also do not get much support on complaints. Remember Daddies and Momies are paying an average of $30,000 plus for their kids to attend, and most colleges care more about that than backing their officers. I was shocked at the way some of these kids treat them with disrespect and the restraint that they deal with them. I know it is a great job specially for retirement for the benefits of college for the kids but, I would not want their job for anything in the world. I dont know if things are any better in State Colleges. So this move by these colleges does not surprise me.
Stay Safe

I know a handful of state college cops and this is exactly what they tell me.

The Admin want you to coddle poor little, "rich Johnny and Jane."

Posted by: SSPO#11

At a State College? My experience is the opposite. If they messed up there is a huge waiting list of kids behind them that want to come to school. Especially with mandatory summons / arrest policies there was very little coddling.

#11

Posted by: fscpd903

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpd61

Ready for this;

Lawyer for the State Community Colleges says that MGL Chapter 15A/s.22 and 73/s.18 don't grant police powers.................
He also says the "layboard of trustees" doesn't even understand those statutes.....
Bottom line= we only derive our police authority as SSPO's under CH22C/s.63

He won't even acknowledge the recent legislation (SB#2132) signed by the governor.

What do you people think?

I guess this is just par for the course. I am not overly suprised that an attorney for the State and Community Colleges wouldnt acknowledge this bill because they obviously dont want us to get the books. Fortunately the lawyer for the colleges will not be trying our cases in court, so the fact that he "wont acknowledge" the bill or MASS GENERAL LAWS as is applies to college police powers hopefully will not be a problem.

The fact that the house, the senate and the govorner of Massachusetts have aknowledged the bill leves him by himself by saying he wont acknowledge the bill.

Posted by: mpd61

The next move will be to re-classify from Police Officer to ISO III and IV.
They are definately trying to dismantle the program here. Good question is what is AFSCME prepared to do?

All the other Schools had better keep their radar up!

Posted by: Mitpo62

Is management fueled by the current investigation at Massasoit? Hopefully the administration will see that investigation for what it is and not get caught up in the politics. Hopefully.....

Posted by: hubble

"not cops" until needed. then suddenly we are transformed into the highest level of law enforcement on the planet.

Posted by: SP880

Ok now, let's look at this, we have mommy and daddy paying thousands for junior to go to school. He gets caught with a joint and three cruisers pull up and want to all get into the action. I remember my college days and the officers would break up parties like it was some type of secret meeting that we were plotting to overtake the school. If you're an officer in the inner city then you have the outside element, other than that there's not much you need to worry about. You provide a valuable service, a detterent and when shit hits the fan you're there to help. Keep pressing and just do the job that's expected, rather than blowing up small issues into larger issues that most would use discretion and say, is it worth it? NO

Posted by: mpd61

Quote:

Originally Posted by SP880

Keep pressing and just do the job that's expected, rather than blowing up small issues into larger issues that most would use discretion and say, is it worth it? NO

Job security and Job safety are not "worth it?"

Posted by: SP880

JOB SECURITY WILL ALWAYS BE THERE!!!
As far as safety, one joint or the odor of marijuana coming from a dorm room door hardly constitutes an issue that you need 3 cruisers responding. Maybe sometimes it's protocol, other than that there's no need.

i'm not saying that campus police aren't important, I'm just saying that for some of these schools far away from the city, where they get a hard on for someone rolling through a stop sign, need to stop and realize what their job truly is. It's a job where nobody cares about you, nobody wants to listen to your gripes and nobody will appreciate that you put on the uniform each day and just your mere presence deters certain activities. So rather than everyone complaining that they aren't respected, just sit back do your job and get your check. If that's not good enough then find another field because you obviously can't handle this aspect of law enforcement. No matter what level you are from a security officer to a Federal Agent, it's the nature of the job, so get over it or go elsewhere. Just be safe in what you do and do the best you can, who gives a damn about what others think and take the fake cop comments and take it out on the next person you lock up.

Posted by: RPD931

Just sit back and collect your check?? Yeah, that's real Law Enforcement. What, are you like 2 years from retirement or something? With that kind of thought maybe you should enter another field, because apparently you're taking up a spot someone else is willing to take and be more effective in.

It's called proactive policing. That guy you stopped for rolling through a stop sign could have a warrant for raping your daughter - "oh, but look the other way". That is disgraceful thinking and disrespectful for Officers that take their job seriously. Just because you stop them doesn't mean you need to give a ticket. But find out who they are and make sure they're not shitfaced too.

We all see guys that can manage to go through an 8 hour shift and not do anything, sometimes never leave the station. These are the guys that make people wonder why they even became cops.

The only thing I do agree on is that you don't need 3 cruisers rolling up for 1 kid with a joint. But if its a boring night, who cares. I wouldn't care if 20 guys showed up... But we would all notice that one lazy bastard that never left the station.

Posted by: hubble

Excellently said RPD931!

Posted by: daveh

Indeed.

Posted by: mpd61

Quote:

Originally Posted by SP880

JOB SECURITY WILL ALWAYS BE THERE!!!
i'm not saying that campus police aren't important, I'm just saying that for some of these schools far away from the city, where they get a hard on for someone rolling through a stop sign, need to stop and realize what their job truly is..

Earlier post from our worldly 26 year old;
This isn't to be a jerk, but school police are there when the kids are there. Municipal police are there after hours. I just wonder who writes these articles.

SP880,

Please be advised your attitude toward "school police" and "campus police" are well identified on this board. Come down off your high horse lone ranger. YIKES!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Officer Dunngeon

Quote:

Originally Posted by SP880

JOB SECURITY WILL ALWAYS BE THERE!!!

Oh yeah??? Says who???

Posted by: new guy

Quote:

Originally Posted by SP880

Ok now, let's look at this, we have mommy and daddy paying thousands for junior to go to school. He gets caught with a joint and three cruisers pull up and want to all get into the action. I remember my college days and the officers would break up parties like it was some type of secret meeting that we were plotting to overtake the school. If you're an officer in the inner city then you have the outside element, other than that there's not much you need to worry about. You provide a valuable service, a detterent and when shit hits the fan you're there to help. Keep pressing and just do the job that's expected, rather than blowing up small issues into larger issues that most would use discretion and say, is it worth it? NO

Hey here's an idea, how about nipping things in the bud before shit hits the fan. I've responded to a number of college parties and speak from experience, not from my arss when I say that some of them can get very ugly, destructive, and violent. And as for the kid smoking the joint, one of our officers recently recovered a handgun that originated from a marijuana stop. But I guess you got it all figured out already at the ripe old age of 26.

Posted by: Mongo

Quote:

Originally Posted by SP880

JOB SECURITY WILL ALWAYS BE THERE!!!
As far as safety, one joint or the odor of marijuana coming from a dorm room door hardly constitutes an issue that you need 3 cruisers responding. Maybe sometimes it's protocol, other than that there's no need.

i'm not saying that campus police aren't important, I'm just saying that for some of these schools far away from the city, where they get a hard on for someone rolling through a stop sign, need to stop and realize what their job truly is. It's a job where nobody cares about you, nobody wants to listen to your gripes and nobody will appreciate that you put on the uniform each day and just your mere presence deters certain activities. So rather than everyone complaining that they aren't respected, just sit back do your job and get your check. If that's not good enough then find another field because you obviously can't handle this aspect of law enforcement. No matter what level you are from a security officer to a Federal Agent, it's the nature of the job, so get over it or go elsewhere. Just be safe in what you do and do the best you can, who gives a damn about what others think and take the fake cop comments and take it out on the next person you lock up.

If your on the job, I wish you would quit and go wait tables or sweep floors in some town with the population of 7. Cuz your attitude and moronic statements are that of an ass that is either always getting in the shit or your kids are. If you are a brother I hope some of the guys you work with find out about you and take care of buisness. If your not on the job I would just chalk you up as just another shitbird that can't get along in public cuz your too busy smoking dope,running stop signs,and counting the amount of cruisers that are in your general area

Posted by: fscpd903

Quote:

Originally Posted by SP880

Here we go again!!! Another person who has no clue what this is all about yet uses this forum to make public his agenda against campus police for whatever reason. Who are you to dictate what constitutes a proper or improper response to any call? The fact that you may have been in a situation where "3 cruisers" responded to a call of odor of marijuana coming from your dorm room in no way gives you any right to generalize that this how every college police department responds and furthermore the fact that you think that issue "hardly constitutes" a 3 cruiser response is not your place if that in fact is their protocal.

I think everyone in the business knows what their JOB TRULY IS. Maybe its you that doesn't know what their job truly is. Again you generalize that colleges away from the city get a hardon when someone rolls through a stop sign. The reason this whole bill was pushed in the first place is to give us the tools we need to do our jobs. Do some reasearch! The fact is that a long time ago someone had a problem with the fact that the Ch90 language did not specifically mention state and community police chiefs and officers in the language. Therefore, the registry stopped issuing the books to said chiefs. You see, in the past MASSACHUSETTS UNIFORM CITATION BOOKS were in fact issued to state and community colleges. Now once again they will be issued because the languge has been amended as such.

State and community college police officers are fully trained police officers, many of whom work part time as REAL police officers in towns, so your WRONG by saying we cant handle "this aspect of law enforcement". The point of this thread is about a lawyer who seems to think that Mass General Laws do not exist and decided he was "not going to aknowledge" a bill that has been passed by the house, by the senate and signed by the governor. The abilty for state and communtiy colleges to now obtain books from the registry in no way gives us anymore power that we already had in the past!

Posted by: SP880

Let's see, how to respond to all these past posts. Sit back do your job and collect your check does not mean do nothing and collect your check. Also, I mentioned that if it is protocol, then it's what you have to do. (RE:3 cruisers for a joint)
When I said that you're a detterent because that's what the college wants, that's equal to preventing crime before it happens. (I'll use smaller words next time)
For the CH90 stops for rolling through the stop sign, yeah it can lead to something bigger, there's no doubt about that. But don't be a big hard ass when it's some little freshman student, who's already shittin his pants because he's never had a run in with someone in uniform.
I have no problem with campus police, I think that they play a role in law enforcement. What I said was that campuses have police for reasons and most don't want to see their students taken away in cuffs for little bogus reasons because someone wants to flex and show that they wear a badge. We see it on the streets too, but it's different when you're on a college campus and your job isn't as secure as having a city/state union. Like I said do what they expect/want rather than getting yourself into trouble.
Dunngeon-sorry about the job security thing, but 99% of the time there's job security.

Posted by: Officer Dunngeon

Quote:

Originally Posted by SP880

When I said that you're a detterent because that's what the college wants, that's equal to preventing crime before it happens. (I'll use smaller words next time)

Okay. You should also make sure that you can spell "deterrent" next time.

Quote:

Dunngeon-sorry about the job security thing, but 99% of the time there's job security.

There is??? Don't be so sure! I guess as long as you HAVE a job, that may be true; but if you're referring to civil service, don't think for a minute that it means diddly-squat!

However, there's no need to apologize to me.

Posted by: SP880

I guess my education failed me, plus I didn't know that you used to be an english teacher, maybe you can fall back into that position if all else fails.

As far as the apology, I was just being nice I guess. Not even worth going any further with that one.

Posted by: Mongo

More than education failed you there skippy.

Posted by: SPO123

<yawn> another post that'll go on for weeks about who has more authority...Maybe putting that "Special" in front of "State Police" was a bad idea???

I'm gonna duck now, I can see the rounds coming at me.....lol

As far as this dope Brown...he must have got busted for Class D in college?

Posted by: Officer Dunngeon

Quote:

Originally Posted by SP880

I guess my education failed me, plus I didn't know that you used to be an english teacher, maybe you can fall back into that position if all else fails.

As far as the apology, I was just being nice I guess. Not even worth going any further with that one.

I was never an English teacher, I'm just someone who passed 6th grade Spelling and simply pointed out that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

And I wasn't being unappreciative of your apology, I was merely informing you that it wasn't necessary since I'm currently employed and not in any worry of losing my job at this point in time. Okay, Gunpowder?

Posted by: fscpd903

Quote:

Originally Posted by SP880

Let's see, how to respond to all these past posts. Sit back do your job and collect your check does not mean do nothing and collect your check. Also, I mentioned that if it is protocol, then it's what you have to do. (RE:3 cruisers for a joint)
When I said that you're a detterent because that's what the college wants, that's equal to preventing crime before it happens. (I'll use smaller words next time)
For the CH90 stops for rolling through the stop sign, yeah it can lead to something bigger, there's no doubt about that. But don't be a big hard ass when it's some little freshman student, who's already shittin his pants because he's never had a run in with someone in uniform.
I have no problem with campus police, I think that they play a role in law enforcement. What I said was that campuses have police for reasons and most don't want to see their students taken away in cuffs for little bogus reasons because someone wants to flex and show that they wear a badge. We see it on the streets too, but it's different when you're on a college campus and your job isn't as secure as having a city/state union. Like I said do what they expect/want rather than getting yourself into trouble.
Dunngeon-sorry about the job security thing, but 99% of the time there's job security.

“Sit back do your job and collect your check does not mean do nothing and collect your check. Also, I mentioned that if it is protocol, then it's what you have to do. (RE:3 cruisers for a joint)” The point that you are missing is that enforcing criminal and civil motor vehicle laws and keeping the community safe is part of our job. As I stated before state and community college police departments did have the ability to obtain citation books in the past. The registry stopped issuing the books due to the interpretation of the Ch 90 language. NOT because any college administration, student or parent didn’t want college police to have the ability to enforce criminal / civil violations. Also, no matter if it is protocol or not, nobody should be questioning what “constitutes” an appropriate number of officers responding to a call, and just a thought, the situation you were in may not be the usual protocol, maybe one of the 3 officers was in FTO!

“When I said that you're a detterent because that's what the college wants, that's equal to preventing crime before it happens. (I'll use smaller words next time)” I agree, deterring crime is equal to preventing crime. I don’t think anyone here does not understand this, so you can use big words, were all adults. Remember though, there is a lot more to law enforcement than just deterring crime, on every level, including in colleges.

“But don't be a big hard ass when it's some little freshman student, who's already shittin his pants because he's never had a run in with someone in uniform.” You seem to imply that all college cops are hard asses. Let’s be realistic! Pretty much every department has hard ass idiots who like to push people around and think they are better than everyone else, Yet you generalize that college cops can not handle this. I am in the field! Most college officers are just as professional if not more professional and just as well trained than some counterparts in city’s and towns.

“I have no problem with campus police, I think that they play a role in law enforcement.” Your comments sure make it seem that you have a problem with college police. Yes, many colleges have duties to perform of a security type nature when it comes to the securing of college owned property. Maybe it’s that you don’t understand what it is that we really do. When the domestic, fight, assault, sexual assault, larceny, B&E, harassment, RO violation etc comes in its us that respond, not the city/town police. When the interview, interrogation, pc, section 12, arrest, crim ap etc occurs, it’s us that handles it, not the city/town police.

“What I said was that campuses have police for reasons and most don't want to see their students taken away in cuffs for little bogus reasons because someone wants to flex and show that they wear a badge.” Obviously we have to realize that we are policing in an educational institution. In fact, many college cops are extremely well rounded and understanding because we do have to police with a different approach than you would in a city/town. Not that one is better or worse than the other, it’s just a different approach that has to be taken and sometimes more discretion has to be used. However, this is not a fantasy land. We are dealing with OUI’s, drugs, weapons, civil and criminal motor vehicle infractions on a daily basis. We are looking for the tools to do our job, as I said before, it is not giving us any more power than we once had.

“We see it on the streets too, but it's different when you're on a college campus and your job isn't as secure as having a city/state union.” This is incorrect, all state and community college CPO’s, ISO’s and Dispatchers are in the same union.

“I guess my education failed me, plus I didn't know that you used to be an english teacher, maybe you can fall back into that position if all else fails.” As far as this is concerned, I will hit spell check, In fact Ill do it twice, but no guarantees.

Posted by: Badge 17

i think one of the bottom lines in all of this is that people think that just because you work on a "campus" you are somehow at less risk of comming across a dangerous situation in your daily routine. This MAY be true in terms of homocide and such, but is it not dangerous to respond to a fight in progess involving 10 or 20 drunk kids when you have 3 officers on duty and backup from the local city/town is maybe 5-10 minutes away? I think all of these fancy lawyers need to "walk a day in someone else's shoes" and they will learn soon enough the job that is done on a campus. Anyways, thats my $.02 for the hour...

regardless of where you work, if you pin on a badge and wear a uniform...STAY SAFE

(especially since if a sh*thead comes across you in your travels, he is not going to look to see if you have campus police on your patch, wear a gun or not, or if there is an "auxiliary" rocker above your patch...he will see the uniform and then you've got yourself a ball game...)

Posted by: firefighter39

IF they are unarmed then they should be wearing a uniform more like mall security (maybe even tan / brown) so that they are not confused with real police

Posted by: PBC FL Cop

Quote:

Originally Posted by firefighter39

IF they are unarmed then they should be wearing a uniform more like mall security (maybe even tan / brown) so that they are not confused with real police

Oh boy, the sheriffs aren't going to like that comment at all

Posted by: new guy

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBC FL Cop

Oh boy, the sheriffs aren't going to like that comment at all

Neither are the unarmed campus police officers.

Posted by: firefighter39

if you don't have all the tools of the trade then you should not be dressing like a real cop, that is just inviting trouble and putting yourself needlessly in harms way.

Posted by: sgtsmithers

Quote:

Originally Posted by firefighter39

if you don't have all the tools of the trade then you should not be dressing like a real cop, that is just inviting trouble and putting yourself needlessly in harms way.

Although we both dress in blue and don't carry guns, most firefighters can easily be distiguished in the wild due to their bigger guts and 1970's porn moooostaches. When's the last time a campus cop cooked a nice dinner for his sleep-over buddies?

Should on-call, volunteer and parttime firefighters wear pink uniforms because they are not "real firefighters"?

Posted by: firefighter39

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgtsmithers

Should on-call, volunteer and parttime firefighters wear pink uniforms because they are not "real firefighters"?

Last time I checked call/vol/part-time firefighters were allowed to use all the tools of the trade that full-time firefighters use. They are not restricted from using equipment because their bosses don't trust their judgement.

Thats what it comes down to with unarmed security -

their bosses don't trust their judgement to use deadly force (or NOT use it), and that is the bottom line, they can not be trusted (in the opinion of their bosses) to make the right decisions

Posted by: Officer Dunngeon

Um, noooooooooo...

...it's more like the nature of the job, not a matter of "trust." How would you explain people in LE that started off as unarmed security or what have you and later on became a full-time, sworn, "real" police officer?

I think you might be better off commenting on aspects of your own job, Mr. Firefighter. You are way off on this one.

Posted by: firefighter39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Officer Dunngeon

Um, noooooooooo...

...it's more like the nature of the job, not a matter of "trust." How would you explain people in LE that started off as unarmed security or what have you and later on became a full-time, sworn, "real" police officer?

I think you might be better off commenting on aspects of your own job, Mr. Firefighter. You are way off on this one.

Thank you for making my point - they start as unarmed security and later become real cops

Posted by: Officer Dunngeon

Wait a sec -- you said unarmed security guards are unarmed because their supervisors "don't trust their judgement to use deadly force (or NOT use it), and that is the bottom line, they can not be trusted (in the opinion of their bosses) to make the right decisions."

So how can they suddenly gain trustworthiness when before they were too incompetant to perform a job where deadly force may be used?

Posted by: DODK911

Can't we all just get along

? We all know this state sucks when it comes to Law Enforcement (well, theres more, but...)! In this state we have more I'm cop and your not a cop then people know what to do with. Personally I feel if you put the uniform on, a badge and a patch that says POLICE then your a Police Officer. Bottom Line (my .02). We are all in the same danger because Mr. crack head is not going to care if your patch says XYZ Town or XYZ Campus, he is going to try to do you harm. It all comes down to the individual Officer and if he is willing to give all BLUE Brothers and Sisters the same respect or pick and choose because you work for a college or are unarmed or your a SSPO. WHO CARES! Give each other the respect we all Deserve, it's us vers them, not BLUE on BLUE.

Stay Safe.

Posted by: Irish Wampanoag

Woody dont worry if they turn us into security this place would go to hell. Its not like we respond to at least 4 to 5 felonies a month either on campus or around the area. Last one was this week at the taco bell where Brockton pd ask us for additional eyes for two robbery suspects that may heve fled onto our property.

Posted by: badgebunny

Quote:

Originally Posted by firefighter39

Thats what it comes down to with unarmed security -

their bosses don't trust their judgement to use deadly force (or NOT use it), and that is the bottom line, they can not be trusted (in the opinion of their bosses) to make the right decisions

Okay...bunny is on

! firefighter39 do you even have a clue as to what it is like working on a college campus or even in law enforcement for that matter? If you don't then don't go making comments such as the above. Who says that the reason campus police aren't armed is because "their bosses don't trust their decision making?" How about this...try a president that lives back in the turn of the century and compares campus police to "english bobbies." So before you go making statements about something you may not understand find out the facts first. I know campus officers who are definately squared away and would know when to make the decision to use deadly force. Some also work in towns in their off time and they obviously know the Use of Force module and when they can and can't use deadly force, so wouldn't you think they would be smart enough to know when they can and can not use it? Also campus officers do go to training (academy, in service, etc.) so again before you speak find out the facts.

Posted by: new guy

Quote:

Originally Posted by firefighter39

if you don't have all the tools of the trade then you should not be dressing like a real cop, that is just inviting trouble and putting yourself needlessly in harms way.

Unarmed campus police officers may have certain limitations on how they respond to certain dangerous calls but they do have many other tools of the trade including, training, authority, ability, professional standards, etc. This is why it is unfair and insulting to say that they are not real cops and compare them to mall security. Although I agree that they should be armed, I also believe that they are capable, even without firearms, to carry out the majority of police duties and should be respected as professionals.

Posted by: bspd103

Everyone keeps complaining that people say that you're not a real cop or that you don't do real police work. Personally, I don't give a damn what people think.
Currently the school police must fulfill a law enforcement job with handcuffs and a radio. We get called fake cops, toy cops and every other name in the book related to not being a "real town cop". Are you going to tell me that we don't do real police work? The kids/adults we deal with are the same kids/adults that BPD deals with at night.
We work one shift a day (8 hrs) and deal with the kids/adults for approx 180 days a year. We recover over 700 weapons and I believe something like 2500 incidents with about 50 patrol officers. Show me a town that has similar stats, I'm guessing that most can't show you this. (this isn't a put down to towns, it's just to point out reality) I don't have experience with colleges, so I can't speak about their role, I just know that it has to be a tough job to deal with a student who pays the school 30,000 plus a year to attend and the school pays you 30,000 to be there working. I'm guessing that I can tell who admin sides with when $#IT hits the fan. (it's common sense, but it doesn't make it right)
We have people who tell us, I can't believe you do that job, it's only a matter or time before someone is seriously hurt or killed. That's a scary thing to anyone at any level of Law Enforcement.
I don't think anyone can say that this isn't real police work. If I'm wrong, please tell me.
Criminals see a uniform, they don't see what your badge/patch says. If they feel threatened they're going to react. You could be in a fallon ambulance uniform and they aren't going to stop and read the patch before they react. Everyone, whether you're security or police serve an important role in the big world of law enforcement. The biggest thing is how you do your job and how you handle yourself. You could be a security guard at Building 19, but because you show up each day, pay attention to detail, polish your boots, iron your uniform and hold yourself professionally, you can gain respect. If they don't respect you, they may respect the job that you do or they might just be plain old ignorant.
So rather than complaining that people say you're not a real cop, we need to look out for one another and do the best job that we can while remaining safe.
If your uniform says police and you have police training, you're a police officer. If your uniform says security, then you're a security guard/officer. Doesn't mean that one is more important than the other because if I'm in trouble, I know that someone who has any training/experience is better than someone who has none. Whether it means they can make a radio call for assistance or come in with the cavalry.
I'm going home at the end of my shift!!!!
Be Safe!!

Posted by: fscpd903

Quote:

Originally Posted by firefighter39

IF they are unarmed then they should be wearing a uniform more like mall security (maybe even tan / brown) so that they are not confused with real police

Ok, we are getting way off the original topic here, but bottom line is this. Some campus police departments are not armed. This does not mean just because they do not have a gun that they are not a legitimate police officers/department. Yes, some unarmed police departments don’t do much police work but others do. Contrary to your belief, these departments don’t wait for the city/town police to respond, they do their own shit! Every police officer/department should be armed with firearms but the sad thing is that it is ultimately up to the board of trustees at the individual college to arm campus police departments. It has nothing to do with supervisors not “trusting” their officers. Your statement about not being “real” police is way off base if you’re judging it on the fact that they are unarmed because you obviously don’t know what they do.

Posted by: Macop

SP880 why don't you get a job at Stop & Shop.

Posted by: quality617

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macop

SP880 why don't you get a job at Stop & Shop.

He won't be considered a 'real bagger' unless he works at Shaws.

Posted by: JoninNH

Quote:

Originally Posted by quality617

He won't be considered a 'real bagger' unless he works at Shaws.

My Stop and Shop seems to have a contract with the local social service agencies... it seems one out of every three baggers has Down's Syndrome (and one out of every three clerks is on probation)... maybe he can contact his local social service agency.

Posted by: underdod47

I have been reading the post on University and Campus police and whether or not they are "real cops". Most people who think that they are not seem to bring up the unarmed aspect in the job description.
I have been both a City Cop (17 years) and a College Officer, I HAVE USED DEADLY FORCE, how many of the detractors can repeat that. There are many differences in the jobs number one is that as a campus cop you need to be able to use good judgement as to when to engage the suspect(s) or when to be patient, you have to be smart enough to work within the limitations placed on you by the Administration and by your Chief. A City cop has the ability to act instantly when a situation occurs and be fluid awhile a Campus Officer needs to react in a static environment.
THE JOB IS OTHERWISE THE SAME. PERIOD

Posted by: ratwatcher

Why bother addressing these morons who question these guys? Your time is not worth it !

Posted by: HPD104

If you have arrest powers then youre a cop no matter what some people think. What makes me laugh is there are some Muni. department's that are smaller and have less resource's then some of the College Pd's....To me a gun is a gun, and has no bearing on weather or not your a cop. however, just to add my two cents, I personally admire those who do the same job as I do with limited resources such as a gun.

Posted by: underdod47

Sometimes you get tired of hearing the garbage that comes out of their mouths and you have to respond. Even the most friendly dog will bite if you kick him enough.

Posted by: Mongo

Understand this. If you are an unarmed police officer i.e.firearm. Then you must do everything in your power to change that situation. If you have exhausted all means to change the fact that you do not have the proper tools for your trade.Then it is time to move on. If you don't understand that while your wearing a uniform that states you are a police officer,and are driving a cruiser that says police all over it, and you can not protect yourself or the public from an asshole that has a firearm. Then God Bless you if you continue to do so at any lenght of time during this screwed up day and age.

Posted by: badgebunny

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mongo

Understand this. If you are an unarmed police officer i.e.firearm. Then you must do everything in your power to change that situation. If you have exhausted all means to change the fact that you do not have the proper tools for your trade.Then it is time to move on. If you don't understand that while your wearing a uniform that states you are a police officer,and are driving a cruiser that says police all over it, and you can not protect yourself or the public from an asshole that has a firearm. Then God Bless you if you continue to do so at any lenght of time during this screwed up day and age.

What? Dude your post is not making sense to me...granted I have been up for quite awhile and it is after 1:00 a.m., but what the f*** did you just say???

Posted by: Mongo

Quote:

Originally Posted by badgebunny

What? Dude your post is not making sense to me...granted I have been up for quite awhile and it is after 1:00 a.m., but what the f*** did you just say???

If you don't understand what I said then I can't help you.

Posted by: mustangmarc13

I have alot of respect for the Boston area campus police officers (and all others not in Boston as well). Take the Boston University/Boston Medical Campus Police for example. They are in a difficult area (the South End), dealing with a very diverse population (there are the neighborhoods, Boston Medical center, methadone clinics, homeless shelters, etc. all within walking distance). They do their job day in and day out as well as assisting local fire departments, EMS, and police. They are an essential portion of our police force here in Mass, armed or not. They also free up the local police to focus more on their own specific objectives.

As for the firefighter/tools of the trade comments......the Boston Fire Dept has state of the art equipment, training, and resources that other local towns and cities cant even dream of. Does that make other departments inferior, or not "real" firefighters? Absolutely not. Push comes to shove, ALL firefighters use what is available to them to protect the persons and property of their community, as do police officers. That argument was retarded. There is mutual respect between firefighters and cops, especially since arson squad members are firearm carrying special police officers, and the common bond between members of both professions: the military.

Posted by: hubble

I get so sick and tired of seeing some hillbilly cop whe has never done anything more exciting than give a speeding ticket to a leaf peeper sneering at campus cops at mutual training events. I know a couple of municipal cops who are real legends in their own minds who wouldn't last a year at a party school.

Posted by: KSB

"I have alot of respect for the Boston University/Boston Medical Campus Police. They are an essential portion of our police force here in Mass, armed or not. "

Then why are they consistantly passed over when ever a BUPD police officer position becomes available ?

Posted by: DirtyHarry

Because they are not qualified !

Posted by: Macop

Because they are not qualified !

That remark is very ignorant and just silly, why?
Not everyone hired as a cop is quote on quote qualified, thats what the Police Academy and FTO is for. Recruits get hired all the time no experience and training. And the guys at BU/Med center Police are certainly more qualified than the average canidate! Why do people say such dumb crap?

Posted by: DirtyHarry

Do you think they want another 5’5” NU CJ graduate?

I don’t think so.

If the administration hires anyone other than relatives it will be an experienced police officer to protect their kids currently staffing the BUPD.

Posted by: KSB

So all the BUPD “wannabees” should just forget about it ?

Because the administrations kids are filling the officer slots ?

Posted by: new guy

So how did we get down this road ?

Posted by: FutureCop23

Quote:

Originally Posted by firefighter39

Sorry firefighter39 but the above statement about unarmed security is completely false. I personally work as an unarmed security guard for a fairly large industrial complex in the South Shore. The reasons I am not armed are as follows; I am not 21 yet (Feb) and most importantly, the account does not require an armed guard. In private security it comes down to what the owner wants (seems to resemble in some regards what college PD's go through), that is to say that if the owner wants armed guards, they get them. If they don't, the guards are not armed. Same goes for how much authority we get (almost none), we mainly report activity/problems to the police and otherwise serve mainly as a visible deterrence factor. As far as your comment on not being trusted, how can you fairly and accurately label every unarmed security guard in the country (essentially that is what you're doing) untrustworthy? I was actually told by my supervisor that he will gladly help me get my LTC, and that I would be able to work at an armed account. To summarize, what determines whether or not a particular location has armed/unarmed guards is based on the owner's wants and needs. In turn, it is incorrect to conclude that based solely on the fact that a security guard is unarmed then they are untrustworthy.

Posted by: KSB

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macop

Because they are not qualified !

That remark is very ignorant and just silly, why?
Not everyone hired as a cop is quote on quote qualified, thats what the Police Academy and FTO is for. Recruits get hired all the time no experience and training. And the guys at BU/Med center Police are certainly more qualified than the average canidate! Why do people say such dumb crap?

Working for a college / hospital PD / Public safety is much less stressful than a municipal PD, so is that what makes BUMC public safety officers better BUPD candidates?

Posted by: DirtyHarry

That must be it !

Posted by: mpd61

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB

Working for a college / hospital PD / Public safety is much less stressful than a municipal PD, so is that what makes BUMC public safety officers better BUPD candidates?

Yeah, because you NEVER see stabbings/shootings/domestic assaults etc.,at a school, much less at a city ER right?

Posted by: Edmizer1

I started out in LE in security as a special police officer, unarmed at a large complex in Boston. It is where I did the most law enforcement of my curremt career. My next job was as an armed campus police officer, full-time municipal academty trained at a busy school in Boston. I am now a town cop. I do much less hands on law enforcement as a municipal cop than I did in either two previous jobs. I work with some guys who look down on campus cops and the security personnel we deal with alot. MOst of these guys would crumble in either one of my two previous jobs.

Posted by: DirtyHarry

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpd61

Yeah, because you NEVER see stabbings/shootings/domestic assaults etc.,at a school, much less at a city ER right?

First of all by the time the victims are transported to the city ER the event already happened, and secondly despite the recent rash of school shootings, stabbings/shootings/domestic assaults are rare events in school settings.

Posted by: new guy

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyHarry

I'm not sure where you draw your perceptions from but I'm guessing that you never worked for a large urban university or medical center. Domestic assaults happen quite frequently on college campuses and as for stabbings and shootings, maybe they don't happen every day but they probably happen more often in those settings than in a small suburban city or town. As far as the BMC /ER goes, I am quite familiar with the neighborhood and many of their victims do not have to be transported too far.

Posted by: mpd61

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyHarry

Of course, just ask Brockton P.D. about how many times they responded to the E.R. in recent years/months as retaliation seekers with weapons show up after "the event already happened". (Thanks to Norman Goodman) And as for campus v. municipal I know we've had more actual shooting victims on grounds (3) in last five years than some of surrounding towns.
As for 209A's, our drawer is pretty thick and plenty of bozo's have been arrested here for violating them.

Posted by: new guy

2 stabbed at Salem State College last night at an on campus dance party.

Posted by: 209

any unarmed SSPO's hearing talk about getting armed because of the recent outbreak/media frenzy regarding school violence

Posted by: Varanus224

I really had an epiphany today, Im sitting in clas(yes, still in school the 5 year plan is crazy) and a girl asks me can the campus police here arrest you? THe question being asked as I told her Im in the Public Safety sector. My answer "yes, of course" reply "oh I didn't think they could do that!" I was only arguing with him today and he wouldn't shut up, and he threatned to arrest me. The reply to that gem would you argue with a Boston Cop or Trooper like you did with him? No? then I had it. How about say for the incoming freshmen classes into schools with sworn po's during the waste of time known as orientation, theres a meeting with campus police entitled "Here's What we do" "p.s. we are real cops". Do any campuses have a mandatory meeting like that.

Posted by: mpd61

Quote:

Originally Posted by Varanus224

How about say for the incoming freshmen classes into schools with sworn po's during the waste of time known as orientation, theres a meeting with campus police entitled "Here's What we do" "p.s. we are real cops". Do any campuses have a mandatory meeting like that.

That would make too much sense like providing incoming students with knowledge of a community resource like "campus police". At this institution of higher education we were dropped from orientation years ago! Do you want to scare somebody YEESH!!!

Posted by: Irish Wampanoag

. How about say for the incoming freshmen classes into schools with sworn po's during the waste of time known as orientation, theres a meeting with campus police entitled "Here's What we do" "p.s. we are real cops". Do any campuses have a mandatory meeting like that.[/quote]

Some students have to learn the hard way!!! I tell them dont hate the player hate the game!!!

Posted by: 48Weeks

An example is SUPD. Great pay etc, but no gun. The admin does not care if an Officer gets shot while driving the SUPD cruiser which says "police" all over it. In fact, the University President and VP will not even let the issue go before the board of trustees for the University. It is obvious that President Sargent and VP Flannery fear that if a vote went before the trustess, then the SUPD may become armed. Like many universities, Suffolk is run like a dictatorship, not a democracy. A few old men at the top think that SUPD is a joke, and SUPD will not be armed until these elderly leaders are replaced. If something happens to an SUPD Officer (shot stabbed etc) and this could have been avoided if the Officer had a firearm, then that Officer's blood is on the hands of President Sargent and VP Flannery. They were educated in depth of the situations that SUPD Officers have faced and could face. Hopefully nothing happens. Stay safe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mongo

Posted by: firefighter39

Quote:

Originally Posted by 48Weeks

An example is SUPD. Great pay etc, but no gun. The admin does not care if an Officer gets shot while driving the SUPD cruiser which says "police" all over it. In fact, the University President and VP will not even let the issue go before the board of trustees for the University. It is obvious that President Sargent and VP Flannery fear that if a vote went before the trustess, then the SUPD may become armed. Like many universities, Suffolk is run like a dictatorship, not a democracy. A few old men at the top think that SUPD is a joke, and SUPD will not be armed until these elderly leaders are replaced. If something happens to an SUPD Officer (shot stabbed etc) and this could have been avoided if the Officer had a firearm, then that Officer's blood is on the hands of President Sargent and VP Flannery. They were educated in depth of the situations that SUPD Officers have faced and could face. Hopefully nothing happens. Stay safe.

So the real question is - why do YOU stay working there? If it is so unsafe then you owe an obligation to your family/loved ones to get yourself out of an unsafe situation.

Do you have a union? How about an infomational picket or even a strike until you get the tools you need. The labor movement is filled with history of workers rising up against unsafe conditions (i.e. "sweatshops", mining, construction etc..) - so go on strike, see what the school would do then with-out you!

Posted by: 48Weeks

I have moved on, but I urge other SUPD Officers to continue the fight. Any SUPD Officers out there who may want to drop a few lines on this? Is the current Union President pursuing this matter? Is the SUPD still affiliated with the LABORERS UNION? (who never pulled through for them when I was there). The LABORERS made many promises (5 years ago now) and are supposed to be very powerful (so the SUPD Association joined them). Last time I checked, no guns and no deputy sheriffs powers. They (LABORERS UNION) enjoyed taking the weekly dues from the SUPD Association though! Again, any SUPD Officers willing to chime in on this topic? Stay safe.

Posted by: bcpd123

Personally speaking from experience, I consider myself a very well paid babysitter to many "children" whom mom and dad don't want to deal with for 4 yrs. Many already have VP/director jobs waiting at mommy or daddy's firm, so we just watch them for 4 yrs. I'd love to be there when these kids get a dose of reality and try to pull some of their crap with municipal/state officers and the outcome isn't going to see the dean to have their wrist slapped.

And when people ask if I'm a real cop, I tell them I'm just a figment of their immagination.

Posted by: Mongo

Wow !

Posted by: SSPO#11

I am glad to see you take such great pride in your job. I would love to have you with me at a serious call.

Keep up the great work!

Posted by: Mongo

Ya that dude would be good backup.

Thier shooting at us, I'm really not here, I'm invisible,I'm just a figment of your imagination.

Posted by: ferus fidelitas

his point is probably that the school's ramifications on the student's future is more likely to be a factor than some mickey mouse criminal charge that will be CWOF'ed in court - He may be right.. You're report to the Dean or who ever they go to, are probably more of a concern to the kid than some disorderly charge that will go away in court anyway..

Posted by: Mongo

What's that got to do with i'm not a real cop just a figment of your imagination statement.

That is a dangerous attitude on any department.

Lock the kid up either way and let the liberal assholes figure it out after.

At least you did your job.

Posted by: KSB

You are probably not going to like my answer, but its because enough of this bull$hit enforcement will have a negative impact on enrollments and your career.

Posted by: Mongo

If you have a set of balls and you know you should be locking someone up. Just do it if it is the right thing to do.

If they mess with you because you did the right thing then you don't want to work there anyway.

So screw them and keep doing the right thing until you can find a better P.D. that will appreciate it.

Posted by: KSB

Talk the talk, but do you walk the walk ?

Posted by: Mongo

Ya I pray what I preach. Was in the same shitty situation and bided my time until an oppurtunity came up and I screwed expeditiously.

Posted by: KSB

When you have a wife, and kids there is more to consider than just your job and your ego.

Posted by: Mongo

I do. I understand where you are coming from.Have been in the same situation a number of times. Maybe I am more agressive in my goals than others,maybe I got lucky, but I dealt with that bullshit and then saw an oppurtunity and screwed.

If you are unhappy try to make changes where you are. If you can't make any changes,they don't change,and nothing looks like it's gonna change then move on.

Their are plenty of oppurtunities out there. Keep your eyes and ears open and research. It is better than being unhappy.

Nothing wrong with my ego neither. I know that I am the balls and better than everyone else and there is nothing anyone can do to change that.

Posted by: ferus fidelitas

Mongo, get a life ... the overwhelming majority of college kids are good people that are making a sincere effort at being successful... they are young and make occassional screw ups... as a parent of 2 college kids, as a municipal police officer in a very busy place, I suggest that you calm down and be pragmatic... look at the big picture... Obviously the repeat bad kids need to be dealt with appropriately, BUT the overwhelming majority of kids in college are paying serious money in tuition, are trying to improve their lives, have positive ambitions of improving society and are decent people. Being young and being without direct parental supervision for the first time in their lives, some may screw up - that is no cause for you to pounce and make more of something than it is - please use mature judgement and look at the big picture - calm the f down - law enforcement is not about numbers - it's about being pragmatic - THAT is what earns respect...never forget to look at the big picture and look for the calm, reasonable options..always be fair, firm and pragmatic - the Yahoos always over react and are never respected . Their judgement is never respected by their employers or peers. Unfair, over reactionary officers who don't see the big picture out of a desire to be seen as "real"police or powerf ul, always raise an eyebrow..You have an honorable job, do it honorably and with self respect, honor and fairness - do not be a shallow pain in the ass that sees the job as being an opportunity to screw people for minor transgressions just to boost your questionable sense of character and ego..

Posted by: Officer Dunngeon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mongo

I know that I am the balls and better than everyone else and there is nothing anyone can do to change that.

Ummm, sorry to burst your bubble, but that can't be true because I AM!!!

Posted by: Mongo

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferus fidelitas

Mongo, get a life ... the overwhelming majority of college kids are good people that are making a sincere effort at being successful... they are young and make occassional screw ups... as a parent of 2 college kids, as a municipal police officer in a very busy place, I suggest that you calm down and be pragmatic... look at the big picture... Obviously the repeat bad kids need to be dealt with appropriately, BUT the overwhelming majority of kids in college are paying serious money in tuition, are trying to improve their lives, have positive ambitions of improving society and are decent people. Being young and being without direct parental supervision for the first time in their lives, some may screw up - that is no cause for you to pounce and make more of something than it is - please use mature judgement and look at the big picture - calm the f down - law enforcement is not about numbers - it's about being pragmatic - THAT is what earns respect...never forget to look at the big picture and look for the calm, reasonable options..always be fair, firm and pragmatic - the Yahoos always over react and are never respected . Their judgement is never respected by their employers or peers. Unfair, over reactionary officers who don't see the big picture out of a desire to be seen as "real"police or powerf ul, always raise an eyebrow..You have an honorable job, do it honorably and with self respect, honor and fairness - do not be a shallow pain in the ass that sees the job as being an opportunity to screw people for minor transgressions just to boost your questionable sense of character and ego..

O.K. How TF did you derive all that out of my posts on this subject. You have no idea how I operate on the street. Apparently you didn't read the part where I responded to KSB ( If you know you should be locking someone up just do it if it is the right thing to do.) If your perception of me is to be unfair,non pragmatic,and unreasonable due to these responses of this thread you have no sense of humor,and no deductive reasoning skills. You should pray what you preach and think about your statements of being reactonary,and shallow as well as having character.

I was merely stating that you should not sacrifice a reasonable arrest when it has merit to arrest in order to satisfy the Dean.Who 99% of the time has no idea what a reasonable arrest is.

If you do this then you are a sellout to your profession,your oath of office,and common sense.

For you to come up with such nasty assements of me from my limited to the point responses of this thread makes me hope that none of my kids will be attending school where you may have some authority over them.

Posted by: gooday

Kids dont go to College they are adults and if they are not done screwing up repeatedly then stick it to them.I fumbled apon this post and was interested, I'm not a cop just a c/o but alot of my inmates are the same age as those people that go to college. Some of them were in college at the time they screwed up. Remember they are not kids and when they get boozed up or high they are just as dangerouse as anyone.

Posted by: Deputydog522

Campus Police for a University or College ios a different type of Law Enforcement than being on a Municiple Department. Alot of situations have to go through the School, to let them make a decision on what happens to the student. That is just the way the schools like it and if being a Campus Police Officer and you dont like it than dont go into the profession. Thats the way they like it and the school is the backbone for the campus Police Depts.

Posted by: j809

Quote:

BUT the overwhelming majority of kids in college are paying serious money in tuition, are trying to improve their lives, have positive ambitions of improving society and are decent people

So because they pay $$$ they are exempt from the laws and have no responsibility to follow the rules. If you raise your kids right from the start then they will not get into trouble at the school. As a former campus police officer, 95% of the people that we arrested were assholes, bad seeds. Every once in a while about 5% were good kids and were dealt with within the college's internal discplinary process.

Posted by: chrome.dome

But since campus cops have to deal with all the administrative BS they live for the ok to run individuals through the system. An example is Boston University's Police Department.

Posted by: DirtyHarry

What ???

Posted by: campuspdchic

Well here's my two cents!! First off, we are allowed to use our own judgement about making arrests and we are supported 100%. Just because admin. makes a lot of the decisions, what the hell do I care, I made the arrest, I am getting OT for my court time, what the hell do I care what happens with them. Do all the people you arrest in your city leave the city after they are arrested?!?!? I think not!

Second, campus police are not so different, we can make arrests just like everyone else, so what maybe we only have jurisdiction limited to our campus, but does that make us NOT cops?!?

Honestly, some colleges pay much more than a municipal! I think some of you municipal guys are a bit jealous, we make more money than some of you and do about half the work. So in all honesty, do you really think we care what you think of us. I know I certainly do not.

Posted by: Mongo

You have the right attitude for making arrests.

You are definateley a cop if you have that attitude.

You do care what we think of you or why would you be arguing these points.

No matter what uniform you wear if you are professional,squared away,proficient,knowlegeable of your job and know your limitations and perimeters.

You are gonna be aight.

Posted by: chrome.dome

They're just excited that they can use "Reid's Method" on some kid.

Posted by: mpd61

Okay,

I started this thread in regards to State & Community College P.D.'s being COPS by statutes, and how a Labor law Attorney who is inept at best, keeps giving administration WRONG advise in regards to police and criminal justice operations.

Well...........
Thanks to this goober we've lost outside details, have two members suspended, are down to one adequate cruiser (From four), and have two (2) criminal investigations being interfered with. Oh well, only four more days to go!

Posted by: KSB

sounds more like a Gomer

Posted by: fscpd907

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpd61

Oh well, only four more days to go!

Where are you going my friend?

Posted by: 4233

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrome.dome

But since campus cops have to deal with all the administrative BS they live for the ok to run individuals through the system. An example is Boston University's Police Department.

Give us an example of how the officers at Boston Univ. live for the o.k to run individuals through the system, and what administrative B.S do they have to deal with. You speak as if though you have first hand knowledge of what goes on there.

Posted by: ferus fidelitas

college officers are college campus special police, municipal police are far and away the primary responders to 9-1-1 calls, state police mostly do traffic enforcement on the highways- among some critical specialties, environmental police enforce forest and sea laws, sheriffs are politically appointed and mostly do traffic details and transport inmates to court.. we are all technically law enforcement, BUT have VERY different jobs - anyone that has done more than just 1 of these jobs can assure you of that.. BUT we are a still a brotherhood and we should all respect each other despite the stark differences in our job expectations and routine duties - we really are on the same page as far as wanting to do the honorable thing.

Posted by: Mongo

Ya, okay Johnny feel good.

Posted by: ratwatcher

Who cares what these monday morning quarterbacks say about the University and College Police departments. You know who you are and what you can do, fuck all of them in the ass!

Posted by: DirtyHarry

And you boys keep blowing the Administration.

Posted by: chrome.dome

I think the BUPD issues their boys chapsticks

Posted by: chrome.dome

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrome.dome

I think the BUPD issues their boys chapsticks

And Knee pads

Posted by: ferus fidelitas

Ya, okay Johnny Smartass

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by campuspdchic

Honestly, some colleges pay much more than a municipal! I think some of you municipal guys are a bit jealous, we make more money than some of you and do about half the work.

I guarantee you don't make more money than I do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by campuspdchic

So in all honesty, do you really think we care what you think of us. I know I certainly do not.

The fact you need to announce that you don't care belies the opposite.

A campus PD job, IMO, is tailor-made for a retired municipal officer. My master plan is to bail from my city PD job when my kids are approaching college age, get on a campus PD for a good school like BC, BU, or Northeastern and get free tuition for the kiddies. I couldn't care less if someone says I'm not a real cop....yeah, whatever, I'm not a real cop. I am, however, saving hundreds of thousands of dollars in tuition!!

Posted by: Andy0921

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta784

I guarantee you don't make more money than I do.

The fact you need to announce that you don't care belies the opposite.

A campus PD job, IMO, is tailor-made for a retired municipal officer. My master plan is to bail from my city PD job when my kids are approaching college age, get on a campus PD for a good school like BC, BU, or Northeastern and get free tuition for the kiddies. I couldn't care less if someone says I'm not a real cop....yeah, whatever, I'm not a real cop. I am, however, saving hundreds of thousands of dollars in tuition!!

Good idea Delta! I never thought about that

Posted by: ferus fidelitas

it's seems like a good retirement plan to go from a retired police officer to a campus officer - i'm approaching that age - 2 of my kids are already in college .. But is working as a college officer a detriment to a group 4 pension.. ? i'd much rather do a C P O job than get soaked on college tuition - easy choice.. But do both state and private colleges give the free tuition benefit ? who does, who does not ? would be a breeze to simply deal with loud, but basically well intentiond students who truly care about their future - which is why they are in college in the 1'st place.. been there, done that... Does it affect a group 4 pension to retire to a campus police job for your children's college education ?? ? is the free tuition benefit worth any hit your pension might take ?

Posted by: chrome.dome

99.9% of the time its an easy job, but on the rare occasion when "the shit hits the fan" you got the 5'5" deans nephew watching your back.

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferus fidelitas

I don't know about state colleges, but the private schools that do have free tuition include BC, BU, and Northeastern, so those are my targets.

As far as the hit on the pension, my kids will reach college age right around the time I have 32 years, so I'll be maxed-out at 80% by then. I have twins, and by the time they reach college, tuition for one of those schools will be somewhere around $50-60K per year. By going that route, I'm looking at a savings of around a half-milion dollars, so even if I did lose a bit on the Group 4 pension, the savings would be well worth it.

Posted by: ferus fidelitas

Delta, it seems like retired municipal and State Police officers would be a good fit at a college... we have no obsession with being seen as "real" police - we've been there, done that, We have have enough experience to be pragmatic... no desire for Ch 90 "powers"- if the Dean isn't concerned about traffic laws on campus - I would not sweat about it either.- In a dangerous situation, we would simply call the local PD and back off from a potentially dangerous situation until they arrive, within minutes of that rare occrrence, rather than worry about being armed - Although I think they should be- if appropriately trained and experienced. We would have absolutely no, almost obsessive zeal, as indicated by some posters, for finding a reason to arrest someone. We've been there and done those things for years...big deal.... yawn... Our need to show "power" does not exist.. We would do it if necessary but not be on a quest to do so just for an ego inflater. Discretion is respected more than how many arrests someone makes - look at the big picture and show some composure.. The job as a CPO would come down to being pragmatic, fair and doing the right thing. The ego stroking titles like being a "cop" would not matter, supporting our families by doing what my employer expected of me would... . i have no need to inflate my ego, you seem to share the same sentiment .. it comes from life experience and self respect.. i also would like to retire to a c p o job if it would help me obtain tuition breaks for my kids. i'd snuggle into that job and never complain about whether someone saw me as a "real" cop... w t f cares ?! family and self respect come first.. just worry about what your employer expects from you - 9-1-1 is a moment away.

Posted by: j809

Bad attitude. I worked as a campus police officer and my Chief there would never hire dead beat slugs with that attitude. He wanted go getters and obviously you do not know what policing we did on campuses. It is not a key turning job but a real police job. All of our guys made it to state police or municipal police and it was a wonderful entry level job into law enforcement and some guys remained tehre because it is a great job. The local PD attitude was , DO YOUR OWN SHIT AND DONT BOTHER US. That is why you guys are cops. They dont want to be called in everytime you have an OUI arrest. This admin BS is limited to only a few colleges in MA and it is definitely not the majority. Like I said, you think you have a great chance as getting hired as a CPO, think again, no one wants to hire an old crusty ass as a cop. The only older guys making it to campus PDs are the Chiefs. Sorry.

Posted by: DirtyHarry

Boston University balances its police department with retired Police officers and political appointments. Former police officers are hired because of their knowledge and judgment, but the Dean's son is hired because he is the Dean's son.

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by j809

Bad attitude. I worked as a campus police officer and my Chief there would never hire dead beat slugs with that attitude. He wanted go getters and obviously you do not know what policing we did on campuses. It is not a key turning job but a real police job. All of our guys made it to state police or municipal police and it was a wonderful entry level job into law enforcement and some guys remained tehre because it is a great job. The local PD attitude was , DO YOUR OWN SHIT AND DONT BOTHER US. That is why you guys are cops. They dont want to be called in everytime you have an OUI arrest. This admin BS is limited to only a few colleges in MA and it is definitely not the majority. Like I said, you think you have a great chance as getting hired as a CPO, think again, no one wants to hire an old crusty ass as a cop. The only older guys making it to campus PDs are the Chiefs. Sorry.

The campus where you used to work had a whopping total of 9 criminal offenses for all of 2005, which is a somewhat busy 8-hour shift for one of our sector cars. I can certainly see why your former chief would want a bunch of go-getters.

http://www.massasoit.mass.edu/mccpd/stats.cfm

In any event, I'm aiming for a college PD where my kid's degrees would actually be worth something.

Posted by: chrome.dome

Its not just the Dean's son at BU. Alot of those guys have informal connections. For example the "former chiefs stepson and godson" to name just two.

This behavior is not only limited to the new hires, but it determines who makes Sgt or higher.

Posted by: j809

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta784

http://www.massasoit.mass.edu/mccpd/stats.cfm

In any event, I'm aiming for a college PD where my kid's degrees would actually be worth something.

You are looking at the Cleary Act stats, doesn't mean shit. They wash those down and only certain crimes get reported. You can have 200 assaults and 200 OUIs and they will not make the stats. WHen I worked there we averaged 12000 service calls a year, lots of busy work, not QUincy but then I never said it was. However, why hire a guy that doesn't give a shit, whether you are 21 or 55.

Posted by: KSB

In any event, I'm aiming for a college PD where my kid's degrees would actually be worth something.

Good Point!

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by j809

So the administration is lying to the FBI. That's very interesting information.

Posted by: j809

Nothing new, i'll give you a copy of my thesis someday.

Posted by: Mitpo62

12000 calls for service....yikes! You're right thats quite a bit for a campus. Here in Taunton, home of sparkling, crystal clear drinking water, we are at 25000+ to date. Of course, if this were a proactive, "go-get 'um" agency I'm sure the stats would be off the sheets. Now, where was I?

Posted by: ferus fidelitas

1200 calls a year... ? car lock outs, loud music, building checks....How many of the rare, major crimes on campus,like the shootings in places like Columbine, didn't involve municipal or State Police... ? Be realistic - Who says retired police officers working as c p o's would be complacent ? I will not be - I'll do my job without striving for any opportunity to show case my campus authority so people will think I'm a "real" police officer. Do your job and stop acting like a whining pain in the ass with Wyatt Earp Syndrome. Being a campus officer has some perks if you have college aged children. The summer must be nice there too...

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by j809

Nothing new, i'll give you a copy of my thesis someday.

Were you also lying when the webpage you used to maintain for the Massasoit PD had a daily police log, and weeks would go by without anything more than a car lockout or a building alarm being reported?

Posted by: j809

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta784

I never lied about anything. The stats that were once posted weekly and monthly were just some of the criminal police action that happened. Also that was not the log, we only took very very few things that the Chief wanted to be posted on the website from the log. The college administration reported statistics to the Department of Education, Cleary Act, not the officers in department. Oh and by the way, the feds absolutely do not care when college play the stats game, no matter what you may read. They only get involved when a rape happens or a homicide and then all the shit hits the fans.

Posted by: new guy

A quote from Ferus,

"1200 calls a year... ? car lock outs, loud music, building checks....How many of the rare, major crimes on campus,like the shootings in places like Columbine, didn't involve municipal or State"...

You say that your only playing the devil's advocate and aiming your comments at a few that seem to have it out for good college kids but then you make comments like this that are an obvious attack on the entire profession . Oh and buy the way, I work for a University and we are expected to form up and get the SOB in an active shooter situation. Hopefully it will never come to that but that's what we have been trained for and are expected to do. And in addition to some of the above mentioned BS calls we also respond to out fair share of "hot calls," including B and E's, Robberies, and other various crimes in progress.

Posted by: DirtyHarry

And in addition to some of the above mentioned BS calls we also respond to out fair share of "hot calls," including B and E's, Robberies, and other various crimes in progress.

Did you ever make an arrest on any of these "hot calls" ?

Posted by: new guy

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyHarry

And in addition to some of the above mentioned BS calls we also respond to out fair share of "hot calls," including B and E's, Robberies, and other various crimes in progress.

Did you ever make an arrest on any of these "hot calls" ?

Yes, plenty of them, as have many of my brother Officers. Nothing to brag about, but it is a part of our job, contrary to what some people think.

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by j809

So, you're now saying you chose to not report the serious crimes you allegedly had to deal with?

Excuse me if I don't believe that, because I don't. And if it is true, shame on you for being the chief's bag man.

Posted by: MM1799

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferus fidelitas

I'll do my job without striving for any opportunity to show case my campus authority so people will think I'm a "real" police officer.

I've met plenty of campus officers, most of them young guys/gals using it as a stepping stone to get on a better job. The ones I've met have a good head on their shoulders and are ready to do their job. Whether it be a break in, a car alarm, or a shooter on campus. They dont sit around and call 9-1-1 or the local police, they deal with the situation (as well as they can) because that is their job. Not because they are trying to prove something.. they are earning their paycheck. And what exactly is your definition of a "real" police officer?

Posted by: j809

Oh please Delta get over yourself, you're the biggest bag man in QPD.

Posted by: KSB

How does one become a "bag man" ?

Posted by: 4198

If you wear a badge and you live a clean life I don't care who you are, your on my side, it's BS to try and say someones job is "not real" or as important as anothers, they all have real danger and should be respected for the job they do.

Posted by: mikey742

Hey Delta just be careful I don't know how old your kids are but some school require you work for the school for a certain length of time before they allow you kids to go for free. Like 5 years. Also free tuition is just that nothing else you still have to pay room and board and fee and such but it does say a bundle. Good luck.

Posted by: KSB

BU does not allow free tuition for graduate school, and certain popular undergraduate fields of study. If your kid chooses one of these popular majors he/she may have enroll as undeclared for the 1st two yrs then pay for the last 2 years or whenever a major is declared.

Posted by: j809

You guys forgot the biggest thing. Your kids have to be SMART enough to get into one of these schools and yes most of them you have to work 5 years before you get teh benefit.

Posted by: BrickCop

Quote:

Originally Posted by j809

You guys forgot the biggest thing. Your kids have to be SMART enough to get into one of these schools and yes most of them you have to work 5 years before you get teh benefit.

It's common knowledge that the bar is set pretty high to crack Massasoit's entrance requirements...

A whole 5 years in a campus environment? That's not too daunting for a cop who's put 25-30 years on the streets.

BTW please explain how Delta is the "biggest bag man" on QPD...this ought to be good.

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by j809

Oh please Delta get over yourself, you're the biggest bag man in QPD.

If you knew the slightest thing about me, you'd realize how completely absurd that statement is.

Posted by: j809

Wasn't talking about MCC, but places like BU, Harvard, BC, Northeaster U. But the 5 years is something you have to put in before you can reap the benefit of free tuition for your kids at most colleges, except state college, i believe it's only a year. But you can't work at a state college because it affects your municipal or state pension. I used to work at Babson and the entrance to get in there was quite high and not one officer on there had kids attending there.

Posted by: DirtyHarry

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB

How does one become a "bag man" ?

Bagging groceries at Shaws, Star market, or Stop and Shop. All the drive necessary for a successful C.P.O career

Posted by: mpd61

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta784

So the administration is lying to the FBI. That's very interesting information.

Why not!They have no problem lying to the MSP about firearms, so who cares about Cleary Act info.

Delta, You really should fall off of J809, They did used to have a good program at Massasoit from 1999 until late 2003.........

Posted by: Sgt Jack