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Main Page LTC Fee for Law Enforcement
(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: union1

I went into my local PD today to get a renewal for my LTC. I went in with the knowlege that the law reads (Law Enforcement Offical) fee is 25.00. I was asked for a 100.00 check. I was like WTF, and asked the guy, is that the LE Rate "Thinking that I was mistaken for the fee"? He then asked me where I work, told him my college PD. He then asked if we were armed, I told him we were not but it was required for employment

. I just read the law and is specifialy states Law Enforcement Official, nothing about an ARMED LEO. Is this correct? do I have any recourse to change? Frankly, ide rather just sell my guns to someone than pay the state 100 bux, I dont use the guns enough to make it worth it. Screw that.

Posted by: firefighter39

Quote:

Originally Posted by union1

I went into my local PD today to get a renewal for my LTC. I went in with the knowlege that the law reads (Law Enforcement Offical) fee is 25.00. I was asked for a 100.00 check. I was like WTF, and asked the guy, is that the LE Rate "Thinking that I was mistaken for the fee"? He then asked me where I work, told him my college PD. He then asked if we were armed, I told him we were not but it was required for employment

Why does LE get a break on the fee? A drivers lic. is requiered for my job, but there is no break, also same with EMT and a whole lot of other lic. DPW guys need CDL's, hoisting et.. but there is no provision in those laws for a break on the $$ so why should LE get a break on a LTC. This is something that should be negotiated in your contract to have your dept pay the cost.

Posted by: union1

Quote:

Originally Posted by firefighter39

Your beef is with the Legislature, give your rep a call to repeal it. In the meantime I want the measily break the Legislature decided to give the schmucks who decided to get into this line of work

Posted by: firefighter39

Quote:

Originally Posted by union1

Your beef is with the Legislature, give your rep a call to repeal it. In the meantime I want the measily break the Legislature decided to give the schmucks who decided to get into this line of work

Any person over the age of 70 and any law enforcement officer applying for a license to carry firearms through his employing agency shall be exempt from the requirement of paying a renewal fee for a Class A or Class B license to carry.

No, your beef is with the legislature, read the law!

Posted by: union1

Quote:

Originally Posted by firefighter39

Did you become a Firefighter because you cant read "not incinuating that all firefighters cant read.. just you" or did you just pull the first part of the law that backs up your claim and just hoped that I would be willing to just lay down to your ignorance? OR would you just be trying to start a message board fight? Either way read below

Section I "For law enforcement officials, or local, state, or federal government entities acting on their behalf, the fee for the application shall be set at $25, which shall be payable to the licensing authority and shall not be prorated or refunded in case of revocation or denial."

Now can someone who is IN LAW ENFORCEMENT answer?

Posted by: Vino5SJ

Firefighter

.....AGAIN this is massCOPS, when there is a post about a fire then we wont mind hearing your

. Otherwise keep the LE stuff to the cops.

Posted by: SOT

If you apply though your department it should be free. If you apply in your town and not via the department it should be $25.

In reality the $25 should be $12.50 as there is $12.50 that goes to the general fund which is illegal.
(just saying)

You should only have to pay $25, maybe bring a letter stating that you are really law enforcement and you are sworn and enforce chapter 90 stuff.
I know that there has been some debate that no chapter 90, not a sworn officer = not really law enforcement. (again just saying)

Posted by: SGT_GRUNT_USMC

Quote:

Originally Posted by union1

I don't understand how your a Police Officer, yet you don't carry a fiream?

Your department doesn't allow you to carry a firearm on duty?How are you supposed to deal with a suspect that is armed?Here in Nevada ALL cops have fireams,even many security guards have guns.

Posted by: Mortal knight

First off, Union 1 you answered your own question replying the FF "through employing agaency" In fact you highlighted it. I'm with ya though, left a Muni and now owrk for campus (FREE EDUCATION!) I don't want to pay $100 for carrying OC and the hopes that one day (IF I AM STILL THERE) get to carry again.

But like we say, we do write the laws...

Sgt Grunt, Mass is F'd up. There is so much pissing and moaning on who is and who isn't LE here, as you can tell by this site. I know in TX everyone goes through the same training.

Posted by: SOT

FYI: OC is a life time permit and only costs $25, no training or anything else.

Posted by: Muggsy09

I work at a private college, unarmed, "special police" powers through the town were I work, I live in a different city and have only had to pay the $25.00 fee. Same for the other guys I work with that live out of town, no problems. I've never been asked if we carry or not. The only thing they asked me for was my Police ID and they took a copy of it.

Posted by: lokiluvr

I live and work in the same town,,,, I got hosed for the whole "C" note

Posted by: soxrock75

I live in Boston and obviously have to go through the BPD for my Class A. So, I go walking in to renew, with a letter from my Chief, on department letterhead no less, and still had to pay the full $100.00.

Seeing as Boston almost never gives out Class A's, I just bit my tongue and took the hit. I didn't want to get denied or anything spiteful like that.

Posted by: Patriot

I'm sorry but unarmed campus security are NOT police officers. Now knowing full well that will rustle some feathers, is still remains a fact.

I don't see how ,by your own admission, you not being authorized to carry a firearm while working would qualify you for a cop rate. A pre-condition of employment does not qualify you, obviously your employer wanted to know that you could pass the requirements to obtain a LTC.

I didn't realize $100 is too rich to exercise your 2nd ammendment right.

Posted by: soxrock75

[quote=Patriot]I'm sorry but unarmed campus security are NOT police officers. Now knowing full well that will rustle some feathers, is still remains a fact.QUOTE]

Oh No You Didn't...................

Posted by: CHROMECOLT357

...what Kind Of Guns? How Much?

Posted by: Tackleberry22

I went down a few days ago to get the renewal paperwork in Worcester, $100. Wasn't it 75 a year ago? Let me guess a biproduct of the "Tough Gun Control Laws". So who are they gonna blame for the spike in fire arm related crimes now? I mean what the hell, the black market would never be a place one could buy a semi-automatic. They only sell pots and flowers.

Posted by: SOT

I think this is the way it went in recent years...

$25 for four years
$100 for four years
$100 for six years

Question is how much should you have to pay for a right? I say zero.

Posted by: Muggsy09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patriot

I'm sorry but unarmed campus security are NOT police officers. Now knowing full well that will rustle some feathers, is still remains a fact.

I don't see how ,by your own admission, you not being authorized to carry a firearm while working would qualify you for a cop rate. A pre-condition of employment does not qualify you, obviously your employer wanted to know that you could pass the requirements to obtain a LTC.

I didn't realize $100 is too rich to exercise your 2nd ammendment right.

Not even gonna respond to that foolish comment. But I will say that this, unarmed "Campus Security Officer, still only pays $25.00 for his LTC. Thanks TPD.

Posted by: franizl

Am I misreading this or do cops in ma have to pay for a LTC. Cuz i'm in NH and we don't pay anything. Please excuse my ignorance in advance.

Posted by: 1zero7

I don't know how they can get away with requiring an LTC and then making you pay for it. It's like...oh, by the way, we are going to start wearing clown noses and you have to go out and buy your own.

Posted by: SOT

Here's the "logic" of making police pay for their LTC.
A police officer can carry on their badge, and doesn't "need" an LTC per se.
The LTC is really a personal purcahse and self defense issue...not a public service / protect and serve issue. Remember a LTC is a carry and purchase permit in MA . No LTC or FID, you can't buy personal guns and ammo.
There is an adminstrative cost for creating an LTC...so someone has to pay for the service. If, as the law reads, an officer must get his LTC from the town he lives in, then it would be unfair to burden that town with doing the work and not getting paid for it.

Some will argue that having an officer get his LTC in his town of residence is a good thing in the instances where there may be some "job action" against him or her at work or if there is some favoritism in the town he or she works.

That all being said I think the "smartest" thing to do if anyone really cared would be to make the fee a legal fee of $12.50, take the LTC process entirely out of the hands of local law enforcement when it comes to police officers (at least) and make the MSP do it. They do it for out of state licenses, why not all cops? Now I know this is going to tweak some officers and there will be complaints about local rule and the state police are not our overseer's etc...but it really takes the politics out of the equiation. The MSP really doesn't seem to care too much who someone is, as long as they pass the BC, they are good to go... ALP.
Moreso towns could adopt a local option for LEO's that reimburse them for the fee.

Face it MA is F'd up.

Posted by: SGT_GRUNT_USMC

Glad I'm in Nevada and not Mass. anymore.We still have the 2nd Amendment here in Nevada.A simple Nevada drivers license/ID card is all you need to purchase any firearm here.The gun store then does a quick BC check and you walk out with your gun in 20 minutes.Open carry and glove box carry of handguns is perfectly legal here.There is no "assault weapons" ban here.Class 3 is easy to get here.stun guns and pepper spray don't require any type of ID much less a permit.Shooting is allowed in the desert away from populated areas.No trigger locks here.There is a permit for CCW of handguns, but NV is a "shall issue" state.Everybody out here has guns, even little old ladies.Nevada law also allows citizens to defend themselves against criminals.If your from Mass.and your ever out this way, you can check out some of our gun stores and even rent a machine gun

Viva Las Vegas

a few of the dozens of Vegas gun stores:

http://www.thegunstorelasvegas.com/rental.htm

http://members.aol.com/zeusnaris/

http://www.centermassfirearms.com/home.htm

http://www.lasvegasgunrange.net/

http://www.americanshooters.com/

Posted by: DVET1979

Dont forget that when you work for a specific state/city/town and are in LE or a Jake, you work for that specific state/city/town. For example, a Boston Cop or FF is employed by the city of Boston, not the Boston Police or Boston Fire Department. Thats what the checks say anyway.

Posted by: Otto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patriot

I didn't realize $100 is too rich to exercise your 2nd ammendment right.

I don't have to pay anything to exercise my other rights.

Posted by: Macop

SOT_II
You should only have to pay $25, maybe bring a letter stating that you are really law enforcement and you are sworn and enforce chapter 90 stuff.
I know that there has been some debate that no chapter 90, not a sworn officer = not really law enforcement. (again just saying)

What the hell does CH 90 have to do with getting a LTC if you are a cop????

Posted by: Pacman

Cop = Do you enforce the laws of this Commonwealth? Yes or No. If you do, $25. If you do not, $100. That's how we do it in my City.

Posted by: SOT

As I said, some departments look at law enforcment as Ch 90 law enforcement. I didn't say I did nor do I care to get into the piss ant whinny bitching contests about if you are a cop or not.

Some would argue that if you are not able to enfoce chapter 90 and your "department" doesn't require you to carry a gun, then you might not be a cop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macop

SOT_II
You should only have to pay $25, maybe bring a letter stating that you are really law enforcement and you are sworn and enforce chapter 90 stuff.
I know that there has been some debate that no chapter 90, not a sworn officer = not really law enforcement. (again just saying)

What the hell does CH 90 have to do with getting a LTC if you are a cop????

Posted by: County 5-0

Citation: 42 Mass. App. Ct. 565
Parties: COMMONWEALTH vs. RALPH BAEZ.
“Therefore, a deputy sheriff is authorized both to serve criminal process and to make arrests in certain circumstances. It follows that, for purposes of G. L. c. 90C, s. 3(A)(1), a deputy sheriff is a police officer authorized to issue a citation for a civil motor vehicle infraction.

Having determined that Massachusetts statutory law authorized Deputy Sheriff Ruggieri to issue the defendant a citation for operating his vehicle with defective equipment,5 we must now address the propriety of the arrest.”

I'm a deputy sheriff...I have chapter 90 = $25 LTC...I must be a cop!

Posted by: union1

Good discussion going, however the question I believe was. Is there someone I can appeal to? Im thinking of just going for the OC permit and tosing the guns.. I dont need the gun, I went and purchased a Dog for home protection.

Posted by: SOT

Yes you can appeal to the CLEO of the town issuing the license. There does not seem to be a methodology in place to appeal the fee to anyone else save maybe the CLEO's boss, the selectmen or mayor or whatever. End all there is a divergence (as there always is) with regards to MA firearms laws.
On the one hand the law reads, "For law enforcement officials, or local, state, or federal government entities acting on their behalf,..."
So the acting on their behalf may be left up to whoever with regards to who is actually acting on their behalf. As well it discusses entities, which would be your department, as your department doesn't issue firearms...it would stand to reason (maybe) that you are not acting on the behalf of law enforcement?
So maybe your chief says, "department doesn't issue guns, no chapter 90, not in my jusrisdiction"....their not actiung on my behalf nor are they acting on the behalf of law enforcement.
Then the little ditty about LTC issuance being at the sole discretion of the CLEO, adds a bit of a kicker.
I'd say talk to the CLEO, if not satisfied, talk to his boss(es), and then sue.
It would be interesting to see what happens.

As to your issue county...I think it doesn't apply to union as union is a campus police officer.
That being said case law and a definition as to who qualifies for the $25 license can certainly be different. I don't agree entirely in either case as to how it is applied.

Posted by: drewpopo

Everyone is missing the big picture here !! What kind of guns do you have and how much do you want for them?

Posted by: firefighter39

Quote:

Originally Posted by drewpopo

Everyone is missing the big picture here !! What kind of guns do you have and how much do you want for them?

Trade them in at the Boston PD gun buy-back for Walmart Gift Cards -

Posted by: Patriot

PART I. ADMINISTRATION OF THE GOVERNMENT

TITLE VII. CITIES, TOWNS AND DISTRICTS

CHAPTER 41. OFFICERS AND EMPLOYEES OF CITIES, TOWNS AND DISTRICTS

POLICE OFFICERS

Chapter 41: Section 98. Powers and duties

Section 98. The chief and other police officers of all cities and towns shall have all the powers and duties of constables except serving and executing civil process. They shall suppress and prevent all disturbances and disorder. They may carry within the commonwealth such weapons as the chief of police or the board or officer having control of the police in a city or town shall determine; provided, that any law enforcement officer of another state or territory of the United States may, while on official business within the commonwealth, carry such weapons as are authorized by his appointing authority. They may examine all persons abroad whom they have reason to suspect of unlawful design, and may demand of them their business abroad and whither they are going; may disperse any assembly of three or more persons, and may enter any building to suppress a riot or breach of peace therein. Persons so suspected who do not give a satisfactory account of themselves, persons so assembled and who do not disperse when ordered, and persons making, aiding and abetting in a riot or disturbance may be arrested by the police, and may thereafter be safely kept by imprisonment or otherwise unless released in the manner provided by law, and taken before a district court to be examined and prosecuted.

Whoever is arrested and charged with any offense committed during a riot, disturbance or mass demonstration may be fingerprinted, in accordance with the protocol of the identification system of the department of the state police and may be photographed.

If a police officer stops a person for questioning pursuant to this section and reasonably suspects that he is in danger of life or limb, he may search such person for a dangerous weapon. If he finds such weapon or any other thing the possession of which may constitute a crime, he may take and keep it until the completion of the questioning, at which time he shall return it, if lawfully possessed, or he shall arrest such person.

In reading MGL 41.98 I fail to see mention of chapter 90 powers. Chapter 90 powers do NOT make you a Poloice Officer, and ego aside you know this. Be fine with what you really are, sheriff or constable or campus security or whatever. Stop trying to delude yourself into thinking you are a cop.

Posted by: fscpd907

1. They shall suppress and prevent all disturbances and disorder.

2. They may carry within the commonwealth such weapons as the chief of police or the board or officer having control of the police in a city or town shall determine; provided, that any law enforcement officer of another state or territory of the United States may, while on official business within the commonwealth, carry such weapons as are authorized by his appointing authority.

3. They may examine all persons abroad whom they have reason to suspect of unlawful design, and may demand of them their business abroad and whither they are going; may disperse any assembly of three or more persons, and may enter any building to suppress a riot or breach of peace therein.

4. Persons so suspected who do not give a satisfactory account of themselves, persons so assembled and who do not disperse when ordered, and persons making, aiding and abetting in a riot or disturbance may be arrested by the police, and may thereafter be safely kept by imprisonment or otherwise unless released in the manner provided by law, and taken before a district court to be examined and prosecuted.

5. Whoever is arrested and charged with any offense committed during a riot, disturbance or mass demonstration may be fingerprinted, in accordance with the protocol of the identification system of the department of the state police and may be photographed.

6. If a police officer stops a person for questioning pursuant to this section and reasonably suspects that he is in danger of life or limb, he may search such person for a dangerous weapon. If he finds such weapon or any other thing the possession of which may constitute a crime, he may take and keep it until the completion of the questioning, at which time he shall return it, if lawfully possessed, or he shall arrest such person.

Well looks like I am good to go with everything listed in C. 41 S. 98 but you say I am NOT a cop because I work for a College Department? My policy and procedure must be wrong because it states: State College Police Officers are granted the "same power to make arrests as regular police officers for any criminal offense committed in or upon lands or structures owned, used or occupied by such College…" Subsequent to their appointment, officers are also sworn in as deputy sheriffs of Middlesex County, allowing the officers to perform police functions on the public ways of the county.

Posted by: Patriot

I believe if you read my posts you would have noticed that I was addressing UNARMED campus security, in the context of said unarmed security believing that they should qualify for a P.O. rate on a LTC renewal fee.

Lest this thread degenerate into a "hey I'm a cop too!!" thread, and having stated my opinion on this matter, I will recuse myself from further comment.

Posted by: Macop

As I said, some departments look at law enforcment as Ch 90 law enforcement. I didn't say I did nor do I care to get into the piss ant whinny bitching contests about if you are a cop or not.

I was not refereing to myself, just in general. Its always good to start a good whinny bitching contest now and again, it builds charecter

Posted by: Irish Wampanoag

Quote:

Originally Posted by union1

Good discussion going, however the question I believe was. Is there someone I can appeal to? Im thinking of just going for the OC permit and tosing the guns.. I dont need the gun, I went and purchased a Dog for home protection.

If you dont need the gun permit dont renew it. 100 dollars goes to a great cause 50 goes to the commonwealth (Mit Romney's campaign fund) 50 goes to the rotten chief and safety officer who charged you. So consider it a donation not a tax it sounds better.

Posted by: SGT_GRUNT_USMC

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macop

As I said, some departments look at law enforcment as Ch 90 law enforcement. I didn't say I did nor do I care to get into the piss ant whinny bitching contests about if you are a cop or not.

I was not refereing to myself, just in general. Its always good to start a good whinny bitching contest now and again, it builds charecter

What's chapter 90?

Posted by: mikey742

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGT_GRUNT_USMC

What's chapter 90?

Motor vehicle law

Posted by: SGT_GRUNT_USMC

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikey742

Motor vehicle law

Do campus police in Mass. enforce traffic law?Also why don't campus cops carry guns?What are they supposed to do if a suspect pulls a knife or a gun?Are they police or security in Mass.?Here in Nevada UNLV Police and Clark County School Police are fully sworn ,carry firearms,enforce traffic laws,and attend a full time police academy.Just wondering how Mass. differs.

Posted by: Patriot

Massachusetts is weird when it comes to this matter. It differs from campus to campus on the issue of armed or unarmed. In my opinion, every campus officer should be full-time academy trained (at whichever academy the host town or city is) and armed. They should have chpt. 90 and arrest powers on their property, but only their property. They should be required to attend the city or town in-service training, to include firearms training and qualification.

And yes, then give them the damn P.O. rate on an LTC renewal.

Posted by: SSPO#11

This is somewhat on topic.....

I am a Police Officer (armed department) that enforces C.90. But I live in the wonderful State of Rhode Island......I have to go through the State Police for an out of state LTC which I believe is more than 100.00!! No cop discount at all, one price fits all.

#11

Posted by: JoninNH

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSPO#11

This is somewhat on topic.....

I am a Police Officer (armed department) that enforces C.90. But I live in the wonderful State of Rhode Island......I have to go through the State Police for an out of state LTC which I believe is more than 100.00!! No cop discount at all, one price fits all.

#11

I live in New Hampshire. The out of state fee is $100 whether you work in MA as a police officer or not, unfortunately.

I inquired and got this response from the state:A resident law enforcement official is charged $25.00 for the processing of the application. A non-resident, however, is not entitled to the same discounted application fee, as the statute you reference below is § 131 of chapter 140, and non-resident licenses are issued pursuant to § 131F, which does not contain this provision.

Posted by: SSPO#11

Jon,

Do you work in Mass?

#11

Posted by: SOT

It's $100 a year but that's for personal carry. If your are a LEO that works in MA, you would carry "on your badge".

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSPO#11

Posted by: SOT

Boston gives out hundreds of class A's a year (if not thousands) they just don't give out unrstricted class A's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by soxrock75

I live in Boston and obviously have to go through the BPD for my Class A. So, I go walking in to renew, with a letter from my Chief, on department letterhead no less, and still had to pay the full $100.00.

Seeing as Boston almost never gives out Class A's, I just bit my tongue and took the hit. I didn't want to get denied or anything spiteful like that.

Posted by: SSPO#11

Thanks SOT_II!

I was wondering that....cause that is exactly my situation. I live in RI but work in MA.

#11

Posted by: JoninNH

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSPO#11

Jon,

Do you work in Mass?

#11

I do.

Posted by: SSPO#11

Thanks Jon....SOT_II answered my question. This stuff gives me a headache!

#11

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