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Main Page City May Crack Down On Pit Bulls
(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: kwflatbed

Law Would Require Dogs To Be Fenced

The City of Fall River is considering a crackdown on dangerous dogs.

A proposed law would force owners to keep pit bulls and rottweilers behind 6-foot fences.

Owners would not be allowed to walk the dogs on city streets.

This proposal comes just weeks after a number of high-profile pit bull attacks.

A Brockton, Mass., man was mauled by a neighbor's pit bull and seriously injured.

The Boston Herald reported that 20,000 people went to Massachusetts hospitals between 2002 and 2004 for dog bites. Most of the bites were not from pit bulls but from the family dog.

Copyright 2006 by TheBostonChannel.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Posted by: dcs2244

What bullshit! I have a friend who lives in Monson and has a pitbull...to protect his family and little girls...they love him to death, and guess what: dad is deployed to areas around the world.

Dogs are what we make them...see my previous response to the retard in another thread...

I have met many wonderful pits...hey, Petey in "Little Rascals" was a pit, and so was Buster Browns dog Tighe...

Posted by: Delta784

If I had $1 for every Pit Bull that savagely attacked someone, then the family claimed what a sweet dog it really is, I wouldn't have to work details. Do a Google search for "pit bull attacks" (24,300 hits), then do "German Shepherd attacks" (73 hits).

If every single Pit Bull on the face of the Earth vanished tomorrow, I'd be just fine with that. If someone needs to advertise how tough they think they are, go get a tribal armband tattoo and a Harley.

Posted by: creeperjeep

yup, all pitbulls are mean, i think they should exterminate the breed, hell who likes dogs anyway?

Posted by: no$.10

Quote:

Originally Posted by creeperjeep

yup, all pitbulls are mean, i think they should exterminate the breed, hell who likes dogs anyway?

lol

My kids were bitten numerous times by their "pet" hamster. I thought there was something wrong with it, so I got another. Same thing. Mean little bastards, gas them all.

People get hurt on four-wheelers, too. Let's outlaw those. And ya know what? bacon leads to clogged arteries, which costs everyone money in health care, so let's do away with that, too. Ditto with butter, and coconut fried shrimp.

In the mean time, who's gonna pay for DNA testing for all "suspicious" looking dogs? My mutt looks like a pit bull. But she isn't. I swear. Oh, you think she is? PROVE IT. She's part pointer, and um....part spaniel. That's the ticket.

Although I can't argue with the fence thing. Most dogs would prefer a fenced in yard to being tied up anyway.

Posted by: 2-Delta

Ive had enough run ins with pitbulls during search warrant executions that I'd be just fine with them being fenced in. Those bastards dont make a peep until you're right up on them, then it's usually too late.

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by no$.10

My kids were bitten numerous times by their "pet" hamster. I thought there was something wrong with it, so I got another. Same thing. Mean little bastards, gas them all.

I've been bitten by a hamster. A little Bactine and a band-aid, and I was good to go. Have you ever seen the results of a Pit Bull attack first-hand?

Quote:

Originally Posted by no$.10

People get hurt on four-wheelers, too. Let's outlaw those. And ya know what? bacon leads to clogged arteries, which costs everyone money in health care, so let's do away with that, too. Ditto with butter, and coconut fried shrimp.

Everything you named are inanimate objects. A dog, especially a dog prone to unprovoked attacks, is hardly that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by no$.10

In the mean time, who's gonna pay for DNA testing for all "suspicious" looking dogs? My mutt looks like a pit bull. But she isn't. I swear. Oh, you think she is? PROVE IT. She's part pointer, and um....part spaniel. That's the ticket.

Let your "part-pointer, part-spaniel" within 25 feet of my children, and see what happens.

Posted by: campuspdchic

Please, the only time you ever hear about a dog attack is when its a pit or rotti. I have a two year old pit, and he is the best dog in the entire world. I am so sick of hearing people bad mouth pits. Yeah some of them have attacked people, but so have every other dog, but we dont hear about any of them!!!!!

Posted by: KozmoKramer

Quote:

Originally Posted by campuspdchic

...Yeah some of them have attacked people, but so have every other dog, but we dont hear about any of them!!!!!

That's because when a labrador bites you; he doesnt continue to EAT you...

Posted by: jasonbr

Guess what: Pitbulls are mean dogs - if you didn't feed it every day it probably would have eaten you already.

Posted by: badogg88

Delta, he's trying to prove a point, regardless of whether or not those things are inanimate objects or a hampster bite can be cleaned up with Bactine and a bandaid. And also, he's being sarcastic. Say it with me now..sarrr-cass-tic. Thanks.

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by campuspdchic

I have a two year old pit, and he is the best dog in the entire world. !!!!

That is EXACTLY what EVERY Pit Bull owner says after their dog mauls someone.

Sorry, but I value my children a lot more than some idiot's status-symbol dog. Anything that looks like a Pit Bull comes near my kids, I shoot first, ask questions later.

Posted by: no$.10

Quote:

Originally Posted by badogg88

Delta, he's trying to prove a point, regardless of whether or not those things are inanimate objects or a hampster bite can be cleaned up with Bactine and a bandaid. And also, he's being sarcastic. Say it with me now..sarrr-cass-tic. Thanks.

=D>

Thank you.

Sarcasm---just another service I offer.

Posted by: jettsixx

I cant believe that some of the people on this board are ignorant enough to blame the breed of dog and not the owner.

Posted by: Delta784

http://www.city-journal.org/html/9_2_scared_of_pit.html

Some excerpts;

"But he's wrong, and dead wrong if we're talking about pit bulls. All men may be created equal, but not all dogs. Says Katherine Houpt, director of the Animal Behavior Clinic at Cornell and author of Domestic Animal Behavior: "Different breeds have genetic predispositions to certain kinds of behavior, though that can be influenced by how they are raised. The pit bull is an innately aggressive breed, often owned by someone who wants an aggressive dog, so they're going to encourage it."

"Pit bulls and pit-bull crosses (not always easy to distinguish) have caused more than a third of the nation's dog-bite fatalities since 1979 and a comparable proportion of serious injuries."

Did you get that? One breed accounts for one-third of of the entire country's dog-bite fatalities. I suppose they ALL had bad owners??

Stop making excuses for ticking time-bombs, there is no place for pit bulls in civilized society. Who will be the next "shocked" owner whose pit bull kills a child???

Posted by: campuspdchic

wow the immaturity on this page is amazing....oh let me go shoot a dog cuz he looks mean, and you got your job HOW??? so what do you use your gun as protection every time you feel intimidated? yeah thats real mature of you! come on now, grow up....yes i will agree that some pits are vicious, but not all of them are! grow up!!!!

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by campuspdchic

wow the immaturity on this page is amazing....oh let me go shoot a dog cuz he looks mean, and you got your job HOW??? so what do you use your gun as protection every time you feel intimidated? yeah thats real mature of you! come on now, grow up....yes i will agree that some pits are vicious, but not all of them are! grow up!!!!

Try reading for comprehension, starting with the part above where it says 1/3 (that's 33%) of all dog-bite fatalities are from pit bulls and pit bull mixes. Are you really trying to explain that away as a mere coincidence??

As I said, any pit bull that comes near my children will very quickly become a dead pit bull. That has nothing to do with maturity, it's called protecting your family against an immediate threat. You've obviously never seen the results of a pit bull attack. I have.

Posted by: 94c

no one gets a pit bull because they're a cute little doggie.

don't ever hesitate around one of these dogs. just put a bullet in him.

Posted by: jasonbr

Quote:

Originally Posted by campuspdchic

If a Pitbull walked up to your children you wouldn't do the same?

Posted by: VTCOP

It's not the dogs, it's the owners that need to be trained, or put down. Googled: Golden retrievers acount for 42,124 hits under dog bites. Goldens are supposedly some of the most family friendly dogs, but actually account for more dog bites than most breeds. This whole topic is a case of discrimination....

Posted by: no$.10

Not that this really matters...

but in addition to the "mutt who looks like a pitbull but i will deny it forever", the no$.10 household contains a wire haired fox terrier that I got suckered into paying big bucks for. Because he was cute. (so say the little no$.10 s). That dog is the meanest little bastard on the face of the earth. Kids won't go near him now. I am still taking him to training classes (he is a year old), but it doesn't appear that he is any shining star. Mostly he doesn't get to go on family outings anymore, because people want to "pet the cute little puppy", which brings visions of lawsuits to my head.

The mutt was a freebie.

Point= personality traits maybe somewhat inherent, but that's not all there is to it.

BTW Delta, if any dog wandered onto my property, and appeared menacing, my bleeding heart would have the same reaction. Just don't judge a book by it's cover, is all I am asking.

Posted by: campuspdchic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta784

well this is the exact point i am trying to make!!! people are discriminating!!!! no i would not shoot a damn pitbull because it came near my children, because news flash, i have two young children and my dog is fantastic with them both. some people are way too judgemental on here, dont believe everything you hear. i'm waiting for someone to say oh look up who commits the most crime i.e. assault, burglary, etc.... is it spanish or black, well then if i see anyone of themcome near my family i will shoot them too....are you kidding me!!

Posted by: jasonbr

Quote:

Originally Posted by campuspdchic

If anyone (black, Spanish, purple or Egyptian) came near my family in a threatening manor - they could very well meet the same demise as any Pitbull.

"people are discriminating!!!!" Good things Pitbulls don't get to vote!!

Posted by: jasonbr

Not to mention, that your comparison of racism in America to the adversity a Pitbull faces is a stretch - to say the least.

Posted by: creeperjeep

So if someone was walking a "pitbull" down the street and crossed paths with you and your family you would just open fire?
You my friend are a tool,
Im pretty sure if I was walking my dog and you pulled a gun on her Id be doing the same to you.

People like you and the people that get an aggressive dog to be a tough guy are on the same level.

Posted by: Andy0921

Quote:

Originally Posted by VTCOP

It's not the dogs, it's the owners that need to be trained, or put down. Googled: Golden retrievers acount for 42,124 hits under dog bites. Goldens are supposedly some of the most family friendly dogs, but actually account for more dog bites than most breeds. This whole topic is a case of discrimination....

Yeah I was just about to write the same thing. Yes pitbulls are most of the time mean dogs, usually the only time I run into them is in the projects serving a warrant when the owner of the thing commands to take down the officers. But these dogs wouldnt just attack us if it werent for the owners who train the dogs to do something like that, theres no bad dogs, theres just bad owners!But I do agree with Delta I would most certainly open fire if one came close to my child and the dog wasnt leashed or under control by it's owner.

Posted by: campuspdchic

Quote:

Originally Posted by creeperjeep

So if someone was walking a "pitbull" down the street and crossed paths with you and your family you would just open fire?
You my friend are a tool,
Im pretty sure if I was walking my dog and you pulled a gun on her Id be doing the same to you.

People like you and the people that get an aggressive dog to be a tough guy are on the same level.

thank you, finally someone understand me!!! most people train pits to be aggressive and attack! i am speaking for my own dog when i say he is the most affectionate and loving animal. and i second that comment about opening fire. i was not saying if a pit or any animal came at someone in a threatening manner, shoot them, THE COMMENT THAT WAS MADE WAS IF A PIT CAME NEAR MY FAMILY I WOULD SHOOT THEM!! so again GROW UP!!! not all animals have the same demeanor

Posted by: kwflatbed

Police shoot attacking pit bull after Colo. officer bitten
Chris Barge
Rocky Mountain News
Copyright 2006 Denver Publishing Company

A Denver police officer shot and killed a pit bull Sunday morning when it attacked him as he tried to arrest a man at a motel off East Colfax Avenue.

The officer was taken by ambulance to Denver Health Medical Center with a serious injury to his left hand. His name was not released by police. The officer was in fair condition at the hospital, said Detective John White, police spokesman.

"It is a pretty severe bite, but we are hopeful there is no significant damage that was done to the officer's hand," White said.

Denver police officers routinely check area motel and hotel guest registries for anyone who may be wanted. At about 8 a.m. Sunday, three officers checked the books at the Driftwood Motel, in the 1400 block of Oneida St., and found the name of a man they believed was wanted on felony warrants relating to dangerous drugs, escape and contempt of court, White said.

The officers knocked on a door and arrested the man while a woman staying in the room put a large pit bull in the motel room's bathroom.

"The dog was somehow able to get out of the bathroom and attack the officer," White said.

The dog bit into the officer's left hand and would not let go, Denver police Sgt. Bob Wyckoff said. The officer used his free hand to shoot the pit bull, and another officer also fired at the animal, which died at the scene.

Motel owner Jean Han said she heard five shots, followed by three more.

She said the man checked into the motel about two weeks ago. Rates there are between $150 and $180 per week.

She said that while dogs are allowed, guests need to let management know if they have one. Han said she was not told about the dog.

Pit bulls are banned in Denver.

The woman in the room was jailed on suspicion of possessing a dangerous animal, Wyckoff said.

Police arrested Donovan Sommerville, 29. Later, police discovered that while Sommerville's rap sheet included arrests on drug and forgery charges, he was not, in fact, wanted on the warrants for which they arrested him.

"It sounds like Mr. Sommerville is a victim of identity theft," White said. "He was arrested under the belief he had three active warrants. These are the warrants that are currently active for the real perpetrator."

Nonetheless, officers continued to keep Sommerville in custody Sunday on charges related to the pit bull attack, White said.

White said police were still trying to figure out the identity of the man who called himself Sommerville. A Colorado Bureau of Investigations background check found that another man, Jermaine Edwards, 23, has used Sommerville's name as an alias in the past.

Sunday's confrontation came one week after an officer in Boulder shot a pit bull at Eben G. Fine Park.

Officer Jeremy McGee killed the dog after it allegedly bit two people and then lunged at him.

Owner Sarah Mallory, 18, was cited for having a dog at large and an aggressive animal.

Photo, Donovan Sommerville was arrested along with a woman following dog attack.

June 12, 2006

Posted by: jasonbr

The fact is that most people DON'T "train pits to be aggressive and attack! " Most pits are not trained to attack at all!

I googled "Family pitbull attack", these are the actual cases of a family pitbull attacking one of its own "family members" that came up on the first 3 pages of the search.

All of these owners said the same damn thing as you before their pet pitbull (which was treated very well and never "[trained] to be agressive and attack!") before it killed/mamed or scalped their own child!!!!!

I would never own a Pitbull in a house with children - GET A CLUE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!

Fatal Pit Bull Attack Leads Lawmaker to Renew Call for Ban
Baffled by pet dog's attack, teen says - Tuesday, 05/10/05
WLKY.com - News - Ky. Girl Survives Losing Scalp In Pit Bull Attack
Mother Pleads Not Guilty In Pit Bull Attack Case - KNTV-TV - MSNBC.com
MaineToday.com | San Fransico tragedy/Pitbull discussion: San ...
Toddler Recovering From Alleged Pit Bull Attack
Women save toddler from pit-bull attack North County Times - North ...

Posted by: kwflatbed

Man Mauled To Death In Driveway By Pack Of Dogs

PHELAN, Calif. -- What began as a homicide investigation in California's Mojave Desert has been resolved: it was death by pit bull.

A man was found dead in the driveway of a home.

The San Bernardino County coroner's office and sheriff's investigators said when deputies found 27-year-old Shawn Lee McCafferty's body, they thought he'd been murdered. He had severe trauma to his upper body.

But the investigation shows he was attacked on June 7 by as many as eight pit bulls outside a suspected methamphetamine lab. The death was being investigated as a homicide until his girlfriend, Lacy Gidney, came forward this week and reported the mauling. She said she was also attacked, but escaped by climbing a fence and running away.

A sheriff's spokeswoman said when officers returned to the home to impound the dogs, authorities discovered a suspected drug lab and arrested 52-year-old property owner Pam McKee and 78-year-old Jereme Miller. They were later released pending a full investigation.

An animal control spokeswoman said the dogs have been impounded but their fate hasn't been determined.

Posted by: no$.10

From the "Village Voice" (of all places...)

Quote:

Studies have suggested that pit bulls are not inherently dangerous. In evaluations by the American Temperament Testing Society, the pit bull passed at a rate of 83.4 percent, just below the beloved golden retriever and 4.5 points higher than the collie.

Posted by: mpdcam

I love how people eat up what the media portrays about pit bulls. You pit bull bashers will read an article in the Herald and say "Wow those dogs should be killed" and then turn around and read an article about something else and say what a rag the Herald is and how the media sucks. Some pits are bad from the beginning, but most are very good mannered dogs. You only hear about the pit bull attacks because the media loves to bash them. You never hear about any other dogs attacking people, it doesn't sell papers or make good tv. Educate yourselves before making any judgements.
My pit is the best dog I have ever had.

Posted by: lofu

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpdcam

I love how people eat up what the media portrays about pit bulls. You pit bull bashers will read an article in the Herald and say "Wow those dogs should be killed" and then turn around and read an article about something else and say what a rag the Herald is and how the media sucks. Some pits are bad from the beginning, but most are very good mannered dogs. You only hear about the pit bull attacks because the media loves to bash them. You never hear about any other dogs attacking people, it doesn't sell papers or make good tv. Educate yourselves before making any judgements.
My pit is the best dog I have ever had.

Sure you do. Dobermans, Rottweilers, and other inherently dangerous dogs.

Posted by: fscpd907

HUNTINGTON STATION, N.Y. -- Police officers on Long Island fired nine bullets at a pit bull on Thursday after the dog attacked a woman.

Suffolk County Police said officers were called to the home of Melanie Auletta, of Huntington Station, shortly after 8 a.m. Thursday. She was trapped in her home by her neighbor's pit bull, which wouldn't leave her yard.

Auletta had been attacked previously by the dog, and eight complaints have been filed with police about the dog this year. The dog's owner wasn't home.

Police Officer Timothy Tonkin attempted to lasso the dog using an animal control device, but couldn't secure the dog due to its aggressiveness

The dog began to attack another woman who was walking by. Officer Tonkin and two other officers diverted the dog's attention from the woman, who wasn't injured.

The pit bull turned on the officers and attacked Tonkin, who fired one round from his service weapon at the dog, striking him in the chest. The dog attacked a second officer, who also fired one round, striking the dog in the side.

The animal continued to chase the officers, and they fired nine shots, hitting the dog four times. The officers were able to lasso the wounded dog and turned him over to the Huntington town dog warden. The dog was in stable condition at a local veterinarian's office.

Posted by: no$.10

um...my clip was in support of pit bulls. It read that Pit bulls actually tested better (lower in aggression) than collies. Perhaps I did not make that clear...

Dunce cap for me.

Posted by: fscpd907

SAN FERNANDO, Calif. It was a scary scene at a San Fernando, California, middle school when a pair of pit bulls charged in Friday.

Police say the pit bulls chased students into a restroom and mauled an eleven-year-old girl. The San Fernando police chief says the girl was bitten "all over her body." He says her injuries are "pretty serious" but not life-threatening.

The girl managed to run out of the restroom. A custodian was able to hit the dogs with a trash can and they broke off the attack.

One dog attacked a police officer as he arrived on the scene, but he was not hurt. The dog was then shot with a bean bag round by another officer. The dogs then ran back to their yard just a few blocks away.

The owner of the dogs is an 18-year-old. He has been arrested and jailed.

Posted by: no$.10

Quote:

A common misconception is that pit Bulls are vicious Not according to the American Temperament Test Society. A recent study by this organization rates ALL the various bully breeds with passing rates of no lower than 83.9%. This is as good or better than many popular dogs today. For comparison, the Border collie only received an overall grade of 79.2%, and the Golden Retriever got 83.2%. These tests put the dogs through a series of confrontational situations. ANY sign of panic or aggression (with a minor exception for dogs TRAINED as guard/attack dogs) leads to failure of the test.

Posted by: fscpd907

OKLAHOMA CITY -- After learning that a 4-year-old boy in Bartlesville was attacked and killed last Friday by a pit bull dog, a state lawmaker said it is imperative that the Legislature help keep Oklahomans safe by passing legislation he has proposed to effectively ban pit bulls in the state.

“This is a tragic and sad event. My heart aches for this family, and we must do everything possible to make sure another family never suffers the loss of a child to the jaws of a pit bull,” said Rep. Paul Wesselhöft, R-Moore.

According to police and newspaper reports, the child, Cody Tyler Adair, was in the backyard at a relative’s residence on Dec. 30, when he was attacked by the family’s pit bull dog. The child was rushed to a local hospital, but died from injuries sustained in the attack. The dog has since been seized and euthanized.

“We must have laws in place that motivate pit bull owners to keep their pets away from children and other vulnerable citizens,” Wesselhöft said. “Obviously, the laws we have on the books right now are totally inadequate.”

Wesselhöft is preparing to introduce legislation that would place significant regulations on Oklahomans who currently own pit bull dogs, including the requirement that all pit bulls in Oklahoma be spayed or neutered. The measure would also prohibit any more pit bulls from being brought into the state. As a result, the bill would effectively ban the pit bull statewide.

“It’s because of attacks like this one that we need new laws to ensure that children and other vulnerable citizens are kept out of harm’s way,” he said. “If just one pit bull is within striking distance of a child, we have a problem, and we need specific laws that will address that problem.”

A statewide survey conducted in August 2005 by the polling firm Cole Hargrave Snodgrass & Associates found that a 55 percent majority of Oklahomans favor a pit bull ban, as opposed to a 35 percent minority who don’t.

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by campuspdchic

That's funny.....I heard the exact same thing from a young mother about 7-8 years ago. She changed her tune when her pit bull nearly took-off the arm of her young nephew in a totally unprovoked attack.

"But he was so good with kids!!!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by campuspdchic

some people are way too judgemental on here, dont believe everything you hear. i'm waiting for someone to say oh look up who commits the most crime i.e. assault, burglary, etc.... is it spanish or black, well then if i see anyone of themcome near my family i will shoot them too....are you kidding me!!

Oh, good Lord.....the race card with animals? That's just pathetic, and a perfect example of your intellectual bankruptcy.

What next....affirmative action for dogs?

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by creeperjeep

So if someone was walking a "pitbull" down the street and crossed paths with you and your family you would just open fire?

Another one that needs to read for comprehension.

What I said was that if a pit bull came near my children, you're damn right I'm shooting the thing. If you have your pit on a leash, you better well pay attention to me when I tell you to stay far away. If not, your pooch will have more lead in it than a #2 pencil. I'm not risking the safety of my children so you can show-off your pseudo-tough guy dog.

Quote:

Originally Posted by creeperjeep

Im pretty sure if I was walking my dog and you pulled a gun on her Id be doing the same to you.

That will play great in front of a jury...."Man shoots police officer who was defending his children against a pit bull". Good luck with that one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by creeperjeep

People like you and the people that get an aggressive dog to be a tough guy are on the same level.

You're obviously neither a cop, nor a parent.

Posted by: creeperjeep

No.2 pencils dont contain any lead...
Any way if some doofus walking down the street draws on me just because hes scared of a dog, How am I supposed to know what youre doing?...You have the logic of an 8th grade autistic kid.
"Defending",,,, doesnt that imply that aggression was shown?
No, not a parent or a cop...
Nice avatar, very suiting

Posted by: jasonbr

creeperjeep: You seem to misinterpret everything. If someone drew: First of all it wouldn't be at you - it would be at your dog, and it would be because you didn't have adequate control of it. Nonetheless, you would be verbally warned to restrain your dog before any potentially lethal acton was taken in the first place. Properly restrained dog=No problem, understand?

Also - The rules of engagement don't apply with canines - the dog doesn't need to show any aggression for me to shoot it. A Pitbull could be appoaching a child to lick him/her, or it could be ready to bite his/her face off - i'm not waiting for the dog to bite to shoot it.

Posted by: creeperjeep

Interpret this, My dog is on a leash in front of me 30 inches away, Thats me in the line of fire,

I had more to write but its useless......

Posted by: jasonbr

Holy crap.................

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by creeperjeep

No.2 pencils dont contain any lead...
Any way if some doofus walking down the street draws on me just because hes scared of a dog,

I'm not scared of dogs, I simply know a threat when I see it. And, as I've mentioned enough times that even an autistic 8th grader should understand, I would not point my weapon at you. I'd point my weapon (and fire) at the dog that threatens my children, AFTER I've given you many warnings to keep your leashed pit bull very far away.

That's for a leashed pit bull. For an unleashed pit bull, I will simply shoot first, and ask questions later. My children are not going to be traumatized and/or disfigured because some asshole wanted to let his hell-hound run loose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by creeperjeep

No, not a parent or a cop...

As I figured. If you ever attain either, then get back to me about this subject.

Posted by: topcop14

I have found that there are two kinds of people. Those who like dogs and those who don't. The ones that don't will be afraid of just about every dog breed there is. I have seen both good and bad dogs of many different breeds. I myself have a doberman. She is 85 pounds and my only complaint is she will not stop licking my 4 month old baby's face. She is the best dog I have ever had. The last pit call I went on was a report of a pit that would not let a women get out of her car. She called 911. When I arrived the pit was walking down the street. I called it and it came over to my car. I then tried to exit my patrol car and I was attacked! ! ! ! ! The thing jumped on me and I had to fight it off. It would not stop licking me. Once I got out of the car the dog layed at my feet and rolled over on its back and showed me its belly. I thought the animal control guy was going to piss his pants laughing.

I have seen people get torn up by pits as well, but I have also seen people get torn up by goldens, shepards, chiwowas and mutts My family dog when I was growing up sent three people to the hospital for stitches. He was a golden and the rule of thumb at my house was if I was playing outside and the dog didn't know you,you best head his warning. The town animal control officer found that out the hard way when he stopped in to see my father. 6 stitches to close the gash in his abdomen. This incident happened 25 years ago and he is still the ACO for the town I work for he and I laugh about it to this day.

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by topcop14

I have found that there are two kinds of people. Those who like dogs and those who don't.

In this thread, there are two different kinds of people.....pit bull apologists, and those who recognize how dangerous they are. Just because I don't wear the pit bull rose-colored glasses like you doesn't mean I don't like dogs....quite the contrary. I had an Airedale Terrier growing up (great dog), and a German Shepherd after I got out of the Army (another great dog). The only reason I don't have a dog now is because my kids are too young. When they get a bit older, you can bet they'll have a dog.

Anecdotal evidence ceases to be anecdotal when you see that 33% of all dog attack fatalities in this country are from pit bulls and pit bull mixes. I still haven't seen any pit bull apologist try to rationalize or explain that statistic.

Posted by: union1

How about we start holding the Breeders responsable since inherantly bad traits can be bread out of a dog? Pits are known to be fighters against other dogs. Its also been documented that the dog fight promoters have been increasingly using German Shepherds to protect their Pit stock. If this is infact the case shouldnt we be banning shepherds too?

Seriously though.. Ive been walking Tremont St with my dog and I have seen people cross the street upon seeing her.. One woman even jumped out of the way when she (my dog) looked at her. Remember, dogs who are protective by nature usualy have a very strong prey drive, When this woman jumped the way she did, she caused Justice to want to give chase.

Lets educate the public about dogs and their behavior around them before wanting to have a Holocaust to exterminate one breed or another.

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by union1

Seriously though.. Ive been walking Tremont St with my dog and I have seen people cross the street upon seeing her.. One woman even jumped out of the way when she (my dog) looked at her. Remember, dogs who are protective by nature usualy have a very strong prey drive, When this woman jumped the way she did, she caused Justice to want to give chase.

Humans are at the top of the food chain....we shouldn't have to modify our behavior to accommodate dogs.

Posted by: jasonbr

Quote:

Originally Posted by union1

How about we start holding the Breeders responsable since inherantly bad traits can be bread out of a dog? Pits are known to be fighters against other dogs. Its also been documented that the dog fight promoters have been increasingly using German Shepherds to protect their Pit stock. If this is infact the case shouldnt we be banning shepherds too?

Seriously though.. Ive been walking Tremont St with my dog and I have seen people cross the street upon seeing her.. One woman even jumped out of the way when she (my dog) looked at her. Remember, dogs who are protective by nature usualy have a very strong prey drive, When this woman jumped the way she did, she caused Justice to want to give chase.

Lets educate the public about dogs and their behavior around them before wanting to have a Holocaust to exterminate one breed or another.

It would take hundreds of years and hundreds of dogs to bread a undesireable trait out of a dog. In all honesty - you'd probably be better off starting over than trying to bread pitbulls that are nice.

Also - in your statement you seem to fault the woman for her reaction when the dog "looked at her". Basically in your scenerio there are two unconcious reactions or drives. The woman by jumping out of the way when the dog looked at her - and the dog for wanted to persue said woman due to his prey drive. To fault the woman is rediculous.....

And please... Even if we put every pitbull in the world in a giant bathtub... it wouldn't even be comparable to the Holocaust......

Posted by: union1

I absolutly DO blame the woman..and heres another for instance.... The Woburn Carnival Yesterday.. My wife was volunteering at some booth at it and called me up wanting me to visit. Being the good dog owner I decided to take the responsable dog owner rout and contacted the Police to find out what the Policy on bringing dogs was. The very nice desk officer "who was also a shepherd owner" said "it wouldnt have been a problem if it was another breed of dog, but that he was sure that he would get calls on seeing a shepherd... Chaulk it up to more of the pussy uneducated public.

Oh wait, ill entertain you with another one! I recently purchased a house in tewksbury (somewhat hillbilly town). about 2 months after getting my GSD (mind you she was about 4 months old) I had her tied up in the back yard while I was cuting the grass. My bitchy old neighbor took this opportunity to come and threaten me and my dog with calling the dog officer "if she ever saw my dog not on a leash".

this is 2 for instances with reputations on the GSD breed. Dont you think its just possible that not ALL pits are bad?

Justice has a very go friend who is a pit... never had a problem with him...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonbr

Posted by: federal officer

Quote:

Originally Posted by KozmoKramer

That's because when a labrador bites you; he doesnt continue to EAT you...

now thats funny !!

Posted by: campuspdchic

Quote:

Originally Posted by topcop14

I have found that there are two kinds of people. Those who like dogs and those who don't. The ones that don't will be afraid of just about every dog breed there is. I have seen both good and bad dogs of many different breeds. I myself have a doberman. She is 85 pounds and my only complaint is she will not stop licking my 4 month old baby's face. She is the best dog I have ever had. The last pit call I went on was a report of a pit that would not let a women get out of her car. She called 911. When I arrived the pit was walking down the street. I called it and it came over to my car. I then tried to exit my patrol car and I was attacked! ! ! ! ! The thing jumped on me and I had to fight it off. It would not stop licking me. Once I got out of the car the dog layed at my feet and rolled over on its back and showed me its belly. I thought the animal control guy was going to piss his pants laughing.

I have seen people get torn up by pits as well, but I have also seen people get torn up by goldens, shepards, chiwowas and mutts My family dog when I was growing up sent three people to the hospital for stitches. He was a golden and the rule of thumb at my house was if I was playing outside and the dog didn't know you,you best head his warning. The town animal control officer found that out the hard way when he stopped in to see my father. 6 stitches to close the gash in his abdomen. This incident happened 25 years ago and he is still the ACO for the town I work for he and I laugh about it to this day.

Topcop, this is the best post in this entire thread! I agree 100% with you, i have a 75lb. pitbull, and my only complaint is that he will not stop licking me and everyone he is in contact with. There are definitely good and bad types of ALL breeds not just pits! =D>

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by union1

I absolutly DO blame the woman.

Then you're a complete moron.....the same type of person who would blame the woman in California was was KILLED by two pit bulls.

Quote:

Originally Posted by union1

Dont you think its just possible that not ALL pits are bad?

I'm sure there are some nice guys in MCI-Cedar Junction also. Do you want to play the odds and make friends with them, also?

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by campuspdchic

What would you say if your hell hound turned on child and permanently disfigured it? I know what you'd say, because I've heard it before..."But he was so good with kids!"

Posted by: campuspdchic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta784

What would you say if your hell hound turned on child and permanently disfigured it? I know what you'd say, because I've heard it before..."But he was so good with kids!"

Delta i think you need to settle the hell down a bit! as i posted before i have children, so yes i will say what i want.....myn dog is great with my kids, nieces, nephews and ALL children in my neighborhood! so not ALL pits are bad! why dont you get off your high horse.....again....settle down....we are all entitled to opinions!

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by campuspdchic

My "high horse"?

What do I possibly have to gain by pointing-out the fact that pit bulls are aggressive, unpredictable animals? I like dogs in general....as I've mentioned before, I've owned two myself.

You simply refuse to acknowledge the fact that you own a time-bomb. It may never explode, but if it does, it will dump a world of guilt and legal troubles like you can't believe, right on top of you. I hope you're prepared for it, because it not only can happen, it HAS happened.

The instance I cited, where the pit bull nearly bit the arm off a child, was a mirror image of what you've said in this thread...."I'm in danger of being licked to death". Guess what? The child that was attacked, totally unprovoked, was in danger of bleeding to death, because a pit bull nearly severed his arm. And, the owner was a typical pie-in-the-sky pit bull owner...."But he was so great with kids!!!".

I have absolutely no idea why any normal person would want to own a pit bull. Besides endangering yourself and your family, your neighbors will most likely ostracize you, and for what? So you can jeopardize your entire neighborhood in a misguided attempt to "prove" that pit bulls have a bad rap?

Spare me. If an unleashed pit bull gets within 25 yards of my children, you better call the doggie medical examiner.

Posted by: jasonbr

HAHA "doggie medical examiner."..... Or you could just call a friend who has a shovel....

Anyways... campuspdchick, you need to come up with some kind of a valid argument. Other people that didn't agree actually went out and found some statistics and used those statistics to form a valid point. It's a more effective way of proving a point than repeating "My dog is so nice." over and over again....

Maybe you missed this so i will post them again:

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonbr

The fact is that most people DON'T "train pits to be aggressive and attack! " Most pits are not trained to attack at all!

I googled "Family pitbull attack", these are the actual cases of a family pitbull attacking one of its own "family members" that came up on the first 3 pages of the search.

All of these owners said the same damn thing as you before their pet pitbull (which was treated very well and never "[trained] to be agressive and attack!") before it killed/mamed or scalped their own child!!!!!

I would never own a Pitbull in a house with children - GET A CLUE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!

Fatal Pit Bull Attack Leads Lawmaker to Renew Call for Ban
Baffled by pet dog's attack, teen says - Tuesday, 05/10/05
WLKY.com - News - Ky. Girl Survives Losing Scalp In Pit Bull Attack
Mother Pleads Not Guilty In Pit Bull Attack Case - KNTV-TV - MSNBC.com
MaineToday.com | San Fransico tragedy/Pitbull discussion: San ...
Toddler Recovering From Alleged Pit Bull Attack
Women save toddler from pit-bull attack North County Times - North ...

Perhaps one of these dogs looks just like your little angel........

Posted by: topcop14

I am not going to argue over this issue but I just wanted to make a point. In 2002 50. 1 % of murders in the US were committed by a race that makes up 25.7 % of the population. Does that mean all members of that race are bad?

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by topcop14

I am not going to argue over this issue but I just wanted to make a point. In 2002 50. 1 % of murders in the US were committed by a race that makes up 25.7 % of the population. Does that mean all members of that race are bad?

We're talking about DOGS.

As much as the animal whackos want to humanize dogs ("Here's a picture of my son.....<barf>), they're still animals, not people.

Posted by: VTCOP

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta784

It is quite hard to rationalize with the irrational. That being said all dog bite statistics are unreliable, The AKC and all other large regisitries of dogs no longer take these statistics because they have recognized the fact that, when grandma's toy poodle bites you, you will most likely not need stitches. When a golden bites you, you will ask yourself what you did to provoke the dog. When a Rottie or pitbull bites you, you will know it and most likely need medical help. However, that being said my wife has worked with dogs all of her adult life, between being a groomer, training dogs, proforming temperment evaluations, and managing a boarding kennel. She has never once been bitten by a large dog. Large dogs give warning it is up to the person to recognize these signs. We have 3 large dogs and one small dog in our home with our child. I do not fear for anything. Our dogs are well trained and well socialized. Her favoirite saying is that the stupid end is at the top of the leash. She would not tell you that there are no bad dogs, there is your occasional dog that is wired wrong and needs to be put to sleep. However, this has no basis in breed but in the overall picture, was the dog raised properly? was it socialized or were you meeting only the dogs that has no social skills and was kept in the back room by a drug dealer? There are large differences between dogs owned by the wrong people for the wrong reasons and dogs that are owned by respondsible owners that want to do right by their familes, pets and society as a whole.
It is hard to fight a battle against fear when your only tools are fact and truth.
- Dr. Gary Goeree, DVM

Posted by: PBiddy35

Pitbulls are a breed that have been bred to fight over generations and generations of dogs. Those that were less aggressive did no reproduce. Yes it is peoples fault that ALL pitbulls are aggressive, but not on a case by case basis. The fact that some people can train them enough to be "good dogs," they are still fighting dogs in their genes. Can't believe this topic made it to 7 pages.... Bravo

Posted by: SOT

Here's the problem: small skulls. (No I don't mean you guys)

1. Pitbulls were bread to fight. They can generally trace their heritage back to the Molossians and were continued to be bread by the Romans, The English etc and so on as either fighting dogs, hunting dogs, war dogs or the most aggressive of working dogs. They used to be used as "baiting dogs" whereby they would corner and attack actual bulls.

2. Modern use for these dogs is about the same. In just about any urban area they are bread and kept as fighting dogs or "guard dogs" for drug dens. Often times being abused so that it will enhance their aggressiveness.

3. As the dogs have become more popular, less than scrupulous breedrs selling them as guard dogs and attack dogs have bread them too close to the line. They have also (selectively and with great determination) bread the most violent of the bunch.
In doing so the close breeding has led to several defects in the breed. In particular "small skull" issues many of the pitbull lovers tend and try and discount this as a rumor but it is actually true. The incidence of cranil, brain, and genetic abnormalities in pitbulls is much higher than most other pure breed dogs. They are overly aggressive, tend to be extremely territorial, and try to dominate almost any situation.

4. Face it these dogs are "war dogs" and fighting dogs, and that's not bad BUT it makes them really shitty pets esp with kids around.

Now certainly there are lots that are nice dogs, but you just have to ask yourself, is it worth it to have these things around with little kids? I say no.

Posted by: Mongo

If you're an asshole. Your dog will be an asshole. They're just like kids. They learn they're behavior from you.

If you are responsible and keep an eye on shit. They're shouldn't be any problems.

Posted by: jasonbr

Oh boy.... we pull this one up again....

SOT is 100% right.....

Mongo: Unfortunately whoever wants to have kids in the good ol' US of A is allowed to. The notion of 'breeding' people expired long ago. So to compare a BREED of dog to a person is silly.

Now to wait for all the "My dog is so nice" and "He licks me too much, he doesn't bite" responses......

Posted by: Mongo

No actually he bites when I tell him too. So don't my kids.

Oh yeah and I'm not silly. You are silly. Silly.

Posted by: mdaz75

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mongo

If you're an asshole. Your dog will be an asshole. They're just like kids. They learn they're behavior from you.

If you are responsible and keep an eye on shit. They're shouldn't be any problems.

BINGO!!

Posted by: fscpd907

Neighborhood tense after dog attacks
By Michael Morton/Daily News Staff
Thursday, December 28, 2006 - Updated: 12:07 AM EST

UXBRIDGE - With the pit bulls suspected of attacking two horses last week still at large, police were asked to talk about public safety worries at the Board of Selectmen's meeting last night, Chairwoman Julie Woods said. Earlier, police said they did not have an update on the case, which has left neighbors peeking over their shoulders and walking around with baseball bats. Despite no official announcement regarding the culprits, some residents have already suggested the town enact a ban on pit bulls because of their reputation as an aggressive breed and their alleged involvement in the recent attacks.

Woods said town bylaws only allow particular animals to be removed on a case-by-case basis, and she was not sure if entire breeds could be banned. While pit bull bans have been suggested from time to time during her seven years on the board, Woods said, one has never seriously been pursued.

"As much as we like to think these things are breed-specific, there's other information that suggests they're not."

The string of attacks began Dec. 19 on Pond Street, when unseen animals killed a miniature horse owned by Kathy Borghesi. That Saturday, her father, Fred Borghesi, chased off two black-and-white pit bulls attacking a second, full-size horse. At least one dead cat was also discovered in a barn across the street.

Police have not identified the dogs suspected in the attacks. But the Borghesis and neighbor Donald Baca said they believe the suspect dogs are owned by a woman on Old Richardson Street. She owns one Norwegian elkhound and three pit bulls, two of which are black-and-white males, according to dog licenses filed with the town clerk. A woman who answered the door at the home yesterday said the family declined to comment.

The family's nearest neighbors said only a single dog had gotten loose once during the three years they have lived there and none of them had ever shown any aggression.
"I've never had an issue," said Ann Dale, who keeps two dogs and two horses on her property.

However, Baca told a different story. He said two of the pit bulls growled at him when he was walking through some property early this year he owns near their Old Richardson home, forcing him to throw a chain saw at them to scare them off. Then in May, a pair of pit bulls attacked his black Lab Lucy, who narrowly escaped.

"They almost killed her," Baca said. After a protracted effort, he said the Old Richardson homeowner's insurance company paid him for the vet bills. He showed a copy of what he said is his handwritten affidavit used to get the reimbursement.
Baca said the pit bulls were quarantined in their home for 10 days after the attack, then were required to wear a muzzle when leaving the property. Police previously acknowledged the attack on Lucy, but would not confirm the muzzle order yesterday or the identity of the dogs that attacked Lucy. A call to the animal control officer was not returned. According to town bylaws, she is the only one who can remove a muzzle order.

To solve the recent attacks, officers took the father of the dead horse's owner to look at the pit bulls. But the father, Fred Borghesi, said only one dog was brought out for inspection. Police would not comment on what identification methods they are using during their investigation.

With the attackers still at large, Pond Street neighbors said they feared for the safety of their families and pets and are keeping them inside if possible.

"Everyone that comes up and down the street has bats," Jamie Fowler said. Even before Lucy was attacked, two pit bulls circled her van and had to be chased off, she said. Now, she limits her exposure.

"We don't come outside," Fowler said. "We get in the car and leave. I don't know what else to do."

(Michael Morton can be reached at mmorton@cnc.com or 508-634-7582.)

Posted by: SOT

Juliet Woods is an idiot for thinking certain tendencies are not more prevalent in one breed over another. The "other" information is from "owners" societies and groups.

Posted by: TC66

neighbor had a pit, nice looking dog -well socialized- didn't seem overly zealous to get at my Dobe pup. but who knows off leash.
people should except a breed to act similiarly to it's breeding intention; unless there is historical evidence of a change. The Dobe was bred to protect man, only breed specifically bred for that sole function(cropped/docked was not done for looks alone). However, the viciousness has been slowly bred out since the dog entered the country in the early 1900's. resulted in awesome family dog -great with kids-great with people when they know you.
however, can still be dangerous if severely abused in the wrong hands. but those characteristics will not be up to par with current breed standards that have changed over the years. The visual evidence is known very quickly.

i'm not sure if there is such a documented history of original breed changing characteristics with the pit.

Posted by: SOT

Hate to break it to you, Dobermans are still pretty much the dogs they were 200 years ago. As they were "bred" up to the early 1900's...it takes just as long, if not longer to breed them down. As well there has always been a large portion of that market that still uses them for personal protection. In fact some of the "most vicious" Dobermans, with the worst traits were bred in the US as recently as the 1980's when they were most en vogue. Close breeding, disreputable breeders, breeders for attack dogs etc. That was the Doberman in the 80's. The popularity of the breed was enhanced by shows like Magnum PI and the like.

When you eugenically breed a dog to be aggressive yet small, and foster those traits...it take much longer to dilute those traits out. The fact that many still look the same is proof positive they are no diluting the breed...so the stock is still the same traited as generations past.

Posted by: TC66

i would guess that close to at least 90% of Dobe breeders now breed for show only..very very few 'working' Dobes are bred any longer, and they are extremely expensive. This type of breeding has resulted in a thinner, watered down temperamental dog in "general".

Posted by: SOT

You are sort of missing that the "show traits" the looks are inherent to the breed as a whole are only part of the breed. As there are only animals from the same stock that have those looks...you can't really dilute the breed quickly. Because the animals with the same looks are also the animals with the same traits.
I have no doubt that you are correct in that they are mostly show dogs, but again a limited "universe" of good show dogs exist so we run into a close breeding problem. Consider how many (not just dobes) show dogs exhibit "dual lines" or being able to trace the stud and bitch lines back to a single primogenitor.

Posted by: topcop14

Dobermans do make great family dogs if in the right hands, but in the wrong hands they could be a disaster waiting to happen. Breeders in the United states have toned down the breed quite a bit and it does not take hundreds of years to do so. As a matter of fact the breed was created by Karl Friedrich Louis Doberman in Apolda Germany in the late 1800s. Doberman worked as a night watchman and tax collector and wanted a dog for protection. Two other dog breeders from the same town took the new breed and really ran with it. If you look at a doberman from the 1890 and compare it to a modern dog and you will see many differences. In the US they have been toned down to the point were some breeders have introduced european working lines into their breeding programs To make the dogs sharper. My dog's Sire is was imported from Europe, not cropped or docked, as that practise has been outlawed in Europe. He was SchHIII.
My dog is a 85 Lb female. She is a great dog and my wife feels safe with her when I am working nights.

Posted by: TC66

Quote:

Originally Posted by topcop14

My dog's Sire is was imported from Europe. He was SchHIII.
My dog is a 85 Lb female. wife feels safe with her

that's pretty amazing considering from what what i have read; Dobes are not known to do all that well in SchH.
Now that's a dog that would not be satisfied with any length of walk..

also, another rarity is a female weighing nearly that much. that's just a solidly builit dog. very nice.
yes, in fact I have heard females are potentially more protective of house and family.

Jake at about 13 months..

Posted by: fscpd907

Search still on for missing pit bull
By Michael Morton/Daily News staff
Saturday, December 30, 2006 - Updated: 12:46 AM EST

UXBRIDGE - A pit bull facing a destruction order remained on the loose yesterday, despite public safety officers patrolling areas he might visit and baiting traps with dog food.

Animal Control Officer Joyce Gareri confirmed efforts are still under way to find the black-and-white dog, named Bruno, but could not comment on whether he is suspected of attacking two horses and at least one cat on Pond Street last week.

The traps, set with wet and dry dog food, are intended to find a culprit in the attacks, which left at least one cat fatally mauled, a miniature horse ripped to death and its full-size stablemate badly wounded. So far, not a single animal has been caught, Gareri said.

"We're doing everything we can," said the animal control officer, who worked on both Christmas and the day before. "Believe me, I haven't slept."

In addition to the traps, Gareri and police officers continue to take turns patrolling Pond Street and the surrounding neighborhood every hour, she said.

Coyotes were initially suspected of killing the miniature horse, but after two pit bulls were spotted biting the bigger horse, police scoured the woods with bloodhounds. Since then, they have interviewed witnesses and examined certain locations, including the Old Richardson Street home of Wendy White, who owns Bruno and four other pit bulls.

White has said four of her pit bulls were home during the attacks, but acknowledged Bruno, living 5 miles away at her ex-husband's home, broke free during a walk after the first horse was attacked but before the second attack.

The dog faces a destruction order because of two alleged animal attacks and for nipping the thigh of a jogger, his third strike. A May incident involving Bruno and another of White's dogs that left a black Lab needing stitches was not counted in the tally.

Despite Bruno's disappearance, Gareri said White's ex-husband is technically in violation of the destruction order and has fined him accordingly. Yesterday, White said she was appealing two violations stemming from the alleged animal attacks, but had not appealed the destruction order itself.

White said Bruno has broken free in the past, but returned minutes or hours later. After initially driving around Uxbridge looking for him, she has given up. She suspects he has either been stolen or quietly hunted down in the woods by vigilantes.

"Last night I was crying again for two hours," she said. "I love that dog to death. All that I can pray is that I can keep the other four dogs and that these neighbors will give up their witchhunt."

But White's sentiments are not shared by other Uxbridge residents. The jogger, Brenda Zylstra, said yesterday that Bruno's nip punctured her clothing and required a trip to the emergency room. She said the dog should be put down. Other residents have called for a town-wide pit bull ban.

Michael Morton can be reached at mmorton@cnc.com or 508-634-7582.

Posted by: topcop14

[quote=TC66]that's pretty amazing considering from what what i have read; Dobes are not known to do all that well in SchH.
That might be because the AKC does not allow its clubs to partisipate schH. They felt it was bad for the dogs image which back in the 1980s was not so good. That is why the the United Doberman Club was founded. They conduct schH trials under the American Working Dog Federation. In Germany and other European countries a dobe can't be a champion unless until it has a Schutzhund "schH" title. The Europeans are trying to maintain the breed as it was origianlly intended as a protection/ police dog. As for the 85 Lbs she, like her owner is a little chunky right now. She normally goes about 78 Lb still very large for a Dobe. Before we get spanked for being off topic, Pits are like all other dogs,and people , there are good and bad in all breeds. My son's day care provider has a chiwwa. It is the most vicious dog I have ever met. It chases me out the door ever time I pick up my son.

Posted by: Barbrady

I like boxers

...

Posted by: Inspector

It's an international issue
Girl mauled to death by dog
Monday January 1, 01:23 PM

LONDON (Reuters) - A five-year-old girl was mauled to death by a dog at her home near Liverpool on Monday, police said.

The dog, which police described as a "pit-bull terrier type dog" attacked Ellie Lawrenson and her 46-year-old grandmother in the early hours of the morning at a house in St Helens.

The grandmother, named by police as Jackie Simpson, was seriously injured and is being treated in hospital, but the little girl was fatally wounded in the attack.
A spokeswoman for Merseyside police said dog handlers and armed response officers attended the scene and decided the dog should be destroyed immediately.

Posted by: Inspector

ISPCA seeks ban on pit-bulls after death of British girl

07:18 Wednesday January 3rd 2007

The Irish Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals is calling for a total ban on pit-bull terriers in the interest of public safety.
The call follows the death of a five-year-old girl during a pit-bull attack in the Merseyside area of Britain on Monday.

The girl's uncle is facing possible prosecution because such dogs are banned in the UK.

They are allowed in Ireland, however, provided the dog is muzzled and kept on a short leash while in public.

The ISPCA says even these regulations are difficult to enforce and do not go far enough to address the danger posed by pit-bulls.

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