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changing to a 4/2 schedule

(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: girlcop21

I apologize if this has been posted before, but I didn't see any postings on the board. My department will be negotiating a new contract soon and a bunch of people have expressed interest in a 4/2 schedule from our current 5/2 schedule. I was just wondering if there was a place where I could collect data and or stats on the benefits of working a 4/2 schedule. The current administration (University) doesn't think that we should be able to work a 4/2 schedule because, among other issues, it will give us more time off. What they don't seem to understand is that while they are sitting at home on nights, weekends, holidays, snow days... etc the police department is here working no matter what. As you can tell, I am looking for some ammunition to use so that we have a fighting chance at getting a 4/2 schedule. Also, are there a minimum number of officers needed in order to make this schedule work? Any help or advice would be appreciated. Thanks all and stay safe out there.


Posted by: Delta784

With a 4/2, you're still working 5 days per calendar week. For example, if your days-off are Monday & Tuesday, you're still working Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Five days.

These people are academics?


Posted by: chief801

4/2 gives you 17 extra days off per year. Minimum number you need to run two person coverage per shift is 9, however, you will run into tons of O.T. if you don't have at least twelve.


Posted by: Blueflu1

Well, with a 4-2 you arent always working 5 days a week. you sometimes work 32 hrs. Such as if you have monday off, work tues,wed,thurs fri, and have sat and sunday off. thats 4 days. with 4-2 you get 17 extra days off a year. We have been battling our town because they want to take it away from us and we just got it about 5 years ago. They wont get it from us though.


Not sure where to get stats on it. Its a tough sell to get it because its much more beneficial to us. The angle we used is that it is better for us because it varies our days off and gives us more time away from the job and keeps us fresher.

If you run 2 cars a shift, you need at least 9 people to truly make it work. (3 officers per group). You can do it with less but it will leave open shifts.


Posted by: Blueflu1

Quote:
Delta784With a 4/2, you're still working 5 days per calendar week. For example, if your days-off are Monday & Tuesday, you're still working Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Five days.

These people are academics?
Huh? That would be a 5-2 then delta if they worked 5 straight days, not a 4-2


Beat me to the submit button chief


Posted by: 94c

Quote:
Originally Posted by girlcop21
I apologize if this has been posted before, but I didn't see any postings on the board. My department will be negotiating a new contract soon and a bunch of people have expressed interest in a 4/2 schedule from our current 5/2 schedule. I was just wondering if there was a place where I could collect data and or stats on the benefits of working a 4/2 schedule. The current administration (University) doesn't think that we should be able to work a 4/2 schedule because, among other issues, it will give us more time off. What they don't seem to understand is that while they are sitting at home on nights, weekends, holidays, snow days... etc the police department is here working no matter what. As you can tell, I am looking for some ammunition to use so that we have a fighting chance at getting a 4/2 schedule. Also, are there a minimum number of officers needed in order to make this schedule work? Any help or advice would be appreciated. Thanks all and stay safe out there.
how does your 5 & 2 work and how many officers are there to work with on each shift?


Posted by: 94c

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta784
With a 4/2, you're still working 5 days per calendar week. For example, if your days-off are Monday & Tuesday, you're still working Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Five days.

These people are academics?
our week starts on sunday so some weeks we work 4 days and others 5


Posted by: PBC FL Cop

Like the Chief stated, 4-2 leaves you with an extra 17 days off per year, which means your contract with have to address payment for those days. Many contracts force officers to "make up" those days with their 40hr-in-service training, which still pays you for 12 days a year your not working. If your agency is willing to agree with this, its a good schedule for your officers. FYI, you'll only receive a weekend off every 6 weeks, but if your currently 5-2, and if you don't have weekends off, every 6 weeks is better than none!!! If worded correctly, its a decent work schedule!!


Posted by: O-302

With a 4-2 schedule, you are working approx. 37.33 hours per week in a calendar year. Your rate of pay and OT rates, vacation days, etc. are all computed using the 37.33 hour week.


Posted by: bbelichick

The State Police work a 4 &2 but work 8.5 hours per day. Try that angle...


Posted by: SinePari

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbelichick
The State Police work a 4 &2 but work 8.5 hours per day. Try that angle...
Exactly. That 1/2 hour per day makes up the difference each week/year.


Posted by: Gil

We are on a 4&2 but I think our work week is calulated at 37.5 hours per week.

I like the way North Reading does it, 4&4 (Four 10 hour days) They end up donating about 120 hrs per year back to the town but at time and a half.


Posted by: Blueflu1

We are on a 4-2. We get paid for 40 even on the 32 hr weeks. Everything is calculated at 40 hrs, even if we work 32. We get a gift 8 hrs.


Our dispatchers are on 4-2. They only get paid for 32 on their 32 hr weeks. So they have to work an extra shift on those weeks to get their 40.
So many variations on the 4-2.


Posted by: spd722

We work 4/2. Our first day of the week is Thursday. So, if I have Thursday and Friday off I only work a 32 hour week. I still get paid for 40 hours which is great, but here is were the town gets us. If I choose to work an overtime shift, that is not more than 8 in a day, I only get straight time for it. For a small department trying to fill a Friday night midnight shift its hard. People wait to be ordered in so they get time and a half (contract states time and a half for order-ins).

Here is the other thing. Lets say my work days are Thursday to Sunday, Monday and Tuesday off, Wednesday work. 40 hours no problem.

I take Saturday and Sunday off either comp or vacation. Work an overtime shift on Monday. I get Monday's OT shift at straight time. Anyone else like this?


Posted by: Blueflu1

even on our 32 hr weeks, we get paid OT for any overtime shift we work. So some weeks, I work 32 hrs, and work an 8 hr OT shift and get paid 48 hrs, 8 as OT.


Posted by: 94c

anything over 8 hours a shift or working any extra shift is automatic overtime.
regardless if we only worked a 4 day week.


Posted by: massirishcop

4/2 schedule is a good deal.I always feel like my time at work flies by.....


Posted by: minks8938

Quote:
Originally Posted by 94c
anything over 8 hours a shift or working any extra shift is automatic overtime.
regardless if we only worked a 4 day week.


Samething in my department.


Posted by: dave7336

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbelichick
The State Police work a 4 &2 but work 8.5 hours per day. Try that angle...
I may be wrong, but does that make up for travel time to and from the barracks because you are in take home cars? I am not sure how that works, but I thought I heard some say he gets some extra pay to work the pike because he has to take his own m/v to work as the cruiser belongs to the turnpike authority. Just curious because we have a contract that expires next year and we were looking for some perks such as working out on duty. Just wondering what to offer in order to get it.

We do a 4 and 2 with any extra worked is overtime, regardless if you worked 4 or 5 days that week. Also, the contract states that the town can't change shifts to avoid payment of overtime, so when in service training falls on a day off, it is for OT. This is usually the case for anyone that does not work a 5-2 schedule. Anyone that works a 5-2 schedule (Mon-Fri) gets a 3 day weekend every 3 weeks. This makes up for the 17 days gained by a 4-12.

Try to get some of those clauses in your contract, that may help.


Posted by: Mitpo62

Try a 5 and 3. That's what we have and it's AWESOME!


Posted by: O-302

I believe what regulates the pay in a 4-2 schedule is the Fair Labor Standards Act, which bases the hours worked over a 28 day period.


Posted by: chief801

Quote:
Originally Posted by O-302
I believe what regulates the pay in a 4-2 schedule is the Fair Labor Standards Act, which bases the hours worked over a 28 day period.
You are absolutely correct, however, the town must notify the union that it has adopted the 171 hour, 28-day work period. Basically, overtime does not have to be paid until you have worked 171 hours in a 28 day period. This overtime provision can be superseded by contractual agreements, such as anything over 8 hrs. in one day is to be paid at the overtime rate. Under the public safety exemption under the FLSA, hours counted toward that 171 hour threshold are only hours actually worked. Sick time, vacation, comp time, etc. do not count toward your 171 hours. Every town is a little different depending on the contracts negotiated.


Posted by: Cartman

Quote:
Originally Posted by girlcop21
I apologize if this has been posted before, but I didn't see any postings on the board. My department will be negotiating a new contract soon and a bunch of people have expressed interest in a 4/2 schedule from our current 5/2 schedule. I was just wondering if there was a place where I could collect data and or stats on the benefits of working a 4/2 schedule. The current administration (University) doesn't think that we should be able to work a 4/2 schedule because, among other issues, it will give us more time off. What they don't seem to understand is that while they are sitting at home on nights, weekends, holidays, snow days... etc the police department is here working no matter what. As you can tell, I am looking for some ammunition to use so that we have a fighting chance at getting a 4/2 schedule. Also, are there a minimum number of officers needed in order to make this schedule work? Any help or advice would be appreciated. Thanks all and stay safe out there.
I have worked the 5 and 2, a 4-10 hr w/3 days off, and I find the 4/2 schedule to be the best. It is the most fair, everyone's days off rotate, and it is very easy to schedule shifts. The benefits to officers, fairness in days off, the 17 extra days off, and a schedule which is very easy to follow. The benefits for management, a schedule which is easy to determine, and employees who may be less stressed due to working only 4 days before 2 off instead of 5. I notice a big difference if I work an OT shift on my day off. Oh, BTW, we get paid for 40 regardless of if it is a short week or not, and we get OT after 8.


Posted by: Webster

The 4/2 does have 17 additional days off due to the "weekends" coming faster. Explain that 11 or 12 of those days equate to their Holidays when they are home with the family.


Posted by: pablo

work 4 -10 hour days. 40 hrs is 40 hours period. we work a 4-2 but only work 8 hour shifts. We are actually exploring going to a 4 10-hr shifts and 4 day off schedule




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