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Main Page Recruit shortage?
(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: JasonTurcotte

This was on MSNBC.com this morning.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12029579/

Posted by: kttref

They are definitely not the only ones. Around here, in SW CT, numbers are dropping rapidly. It's a shame...no longer are the "best" getting hired, but those who show up are...granted, I won't complain, I got a job.

Posted by: KozmoKramer

Why do you think it is, that in Mass you couldnt buy yourself a PO job on a city - town or the MSP, but in just about every other state they have major applicant & talent deficits?
What makes policing in Massachusetts so unique?

Posted by: LA Copper

Speaking only for my own department: I sit on entry level oral interviews and have noticed that we still have a lot of people trying to get on the job. The problem is the quality of the folks. They just aren't the same as they used to be. The big question is, why? Where did the quality people go?

Posted by: SPINMASS

The money in Mass is a big difference.

Posted by: LA Copper

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPINMASS

The money in Mass is a big difference.

In what way?

Posted by: lofu

I don't want to speak for anyone but I believe he was saying that the pay in Mass is better than in many of the surrounding states.

Posted by: LA Copper

Quote:

Originally Posted by lofu

I don't want to speak for anyone but I believe he was saying that the pay in Mass is better than in many of the surrounding states.

From what little research I've done, that is probably true. Although there isn't any difference from Mass to California.. My department starts at $51,500 without a degree. There are lots of departments around my area that start higher than that. At the very least, we are comprable to Mass. I don't know if that's saying much though!

Posted by: 725

I think there are several reasons why it seems that everyone in Mass wants the job and other areas of the country have such a tough time hiring nowadays . . . First, Mass has road details, Quinn bill, very strong unions, and Civil Circus. There is a lot of money to be made and it is very difficult to get fired. Second, generally speaking, Mass is behind the West Coast in technology, training, and strategy. Policing in this area is still very much an "old school" type mentality, some of the aspects of which would never fly in Florida or California for example. Overall, I think that there is less public respect for the profession in Mass than in some other areas of the country. I think many applicants see being a police officer in Mass as a "job" and not a profession. If the hiring standards in Mass were stepped up a notch or two and we got rid of Civil Service, I think you'd see a change in the type of applicants for the job. On the same hand, however, you'd probably also begin to experience a lack of applicants like LAPD is having now.

Posted by: Killjoy

Quote:

Overall, I think that there is less public respect for the profession in Mass than in some other areas of the country.

I would disagree with this statement. One of my classmates was LAPD for a couple of years and the stories that he told were beyond belief...parents telling their 5-year old kids to yell obscenities at police officers, kids spitting on cops, basically a complete and utter disregard for authority. I believe that New England is one of the few places in the country that still has some respect for law enforcement officers. This translates into kids growing up with respect for police officers and desiring to be cops when they grow up....in a place with little or no respect for their law enforcement, it would naturally be harder to recruit. No one but the most dedicated grow up with the desire to be cop. How else could you explain that a city of over 8 million people can't fill about 9,000 jobs? There aren't 8 million people in all of Massachusetts and we have good people breaking down the door to be police.

Quote:

Policing in this area is still very much an "old school" type mentality, some of the aspects of which would never fly in Florida or California for example

I also take some issue with this statement. Although New England is certainly behind in technical aspects of policing, I believe that police officers in Mass have some the most stringent laws in the country restricting search & seizure, and other "criminal friendly" laws.

Posted by: LA Copper

Killjoy,
I believe you are correct in some aspects. But, keep in mind, Los Angeles is, for the most part, "inner city." There aren't any areas in the city itself that you could compare to most of New England, as you mentioned. The smaller cities outside of Los Angeles are somewhat similar to some parts of New England but that's about it.

Having been born and raised my early years in Jamaica Plain and raised in that area, I have a pretty good idea what the area is like. (My whole family is still back there and I come back to visit several times a year.) Not that I'm any expert, but it appears that many "inner cities" whether they be Boston, Detroit, New York, Los Angeles, etc, are pretty similar. There isn't much respect for the police.

It's when you go outside the "inner cities" that you seem to find more respect for the police. Talking to friends I have on smaller departments back there in Mass and New Hampshire and doing ride alongs with them, I find that this is true. The same can be said for smaller cities out here, outside of Los Angeles.

Also, we could fill the jobs if we really wanted to, it's just that the people who have been applying here lately haven't been the best in quality. The Civil Service rules out here are a lot different than back there. The process is also very different. Out here, there is no state wide test that everyone takes like back there. Here every city has their own testing process, which is handled much differently than back there in Mass.

By the way, the city "only" has about 4 1/2 million people. It's the county that has about 9 or 10 million. We also have over 1000 openings to fill on my department alone, let alone all the neighboring departments. That's a little different than many departments back there that usually only put on about 10 to 20 people a year.

Posted by: SPINMASS

Quote:

I don't want to speak for anyone but I believe he was saying that the pay in Mass is better than in many of the surrounding states.

this is what I was saying. Certainly their are some areas that pay as well, however their are other factors as well.

Posted by: heyyou

might have something to do with the polygraph.

Posted by: Killjoy

Quote:

Also, we could fill the jobs if we really wanted to, it's just that the people who have been applying here lately haven't been the best in quality.

Once again, we have TOO many good people breaking the door down to get on police departments. Maybe the discrepency also has something to do with Masschusett's large number of colleges...it tends to make those in their early twenties (ripe police recruiting age) migrate towards Mass. I know lots of people who were from New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine, etc who came here for college and decided to settle here.

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killjoy

I think that's a factor, as well as many Mass. people leave for awhile, then eventually return. I can think of a few guys we've hired in the last couple of years who met their wives (Mass natives) while stationed with the military, then settled in Mass when their wives got homesick.

Posted by: dcs2244

The lack of quality applicants, I believe, is directly proportional to the quality of the basic education system...in the name of "political correctness", public school curriculums are being "dumbed down" to ensure equality of outcome: that is, all the federally protected victims groups are being guaranteed a place at the table without having to earn it. Since the education is "dumbed down", the results are lowered across the board, without regard to race/creed/color, etcetera.

Please do not think me a racist or bigot: members of federally recognized victims groups are fully capable of intellectual excellence, but less likely to attain it thanks to federal meddling. If one is not expected to EARN a thing...then why would one even try...the feds guarantee the "equal" outcome.

Posted by: LA Copper

The college thing has a lot of merit. You've got a good point there, especially in a small state like Massachusetts.

Of course, we have quite a few colleges and universities out here in California also. The only problem we have with that is that we also have a very large number of companies and busnesses that pay a lot of money to work for them. A good example would be the television and movie industry. They are very BIG out here. There is a lot of money to be made in that industry and it attracts a lot of college educated people (I'm talking mostly behind the scenes).
Another problem with all the people you mentioned that we have in this large area is that a lot of them are not yet citizens of the U.S. As I'm sure you know, you have to be a citizen to be a police officer in this country. So that kind of dwindles down our people base from which to choose from. But hey, we'll keep plugging away.

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