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Why do Mass troopers?

(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: Unregistered

Why do the state police in the smallest states have the biggest egos?

After reading some of these threads,it is obvious that the Mass. state police want it all. Currently, they feel threatened from the sheriffs and the Nemlec/regional teams. A few years ago, it was the MDC police and the Registry inspectors.
Why do the Mass troopers think they are the only police force in the state and think they have a monopoly on policing?

Some have called it the reinvention of the wheel. I believe the state police reinvented the wheel back in the 1970's when their recently created stop team started responding to calls in the Metro Boston area.
This was an area already covered by full time uniformed cops that have been providing mutual aid to each other since the 1850's.
The state police were created to police the state's highways, and police the towns out west that did not have a police force. This uniformed state police force did not come about until the 1920's.
The state police should concentrate on their primary mission: to police the highways and western Mass.

That is where they should concentrate their stop teams.
I will ask again. The state police were the last uniformed police force created in this state. Why do they think they have a monopoly on policing?
Stick to your primary job description...the one you were hired for. Police the highways and western Mass. Assist the local police when called...your secondary responsibility. The cops in the cities and towns have been doing it for much longer, aiding each other and using mutual aid agreements since the 1850's.

The state police have the nerve to question the police chiefs of Nemlec which was created in the 1960's, before the stop team existed. How can you question police chiefs and city politicians on how they want to handle local affairs,which they have been doing since the 1850's?

The first police boats were in Boston. Namely Boston PD and the MDC. Quincy, Salem, Gloucester, New Bedford etc. all had police boats before the uniformed state police were created in the 20's. Did the state police not reinvent the wheel 'again' when they tried taking over policing the waterways? That's ok though isn't it? Keep your boats out west.

A trooper on here says there are enough bad guys for everyone, yet too many tac teams for all these bad guys? Please. Listen to yourself and get real. Practice what you preach.
Since the last Spam letter, the Nemlec guys are responding in fully marked cruisers with insurance policies. No more bubble lights. The state police service is funded by tax payers, it is far from free.
If a trooper crashes or a local cop crashes en route to a scene, who pays either way? Insurance policies and tax payers. There goes that argument.
If the citizens cry about too many tac teams and high taxes, guess which teams will not be funded? It won't be the regional teams. They are here to stay. They have been around since the 1960's and only became stronger since 911. They will go away when terrorism is removed from the planet and we live in Utopia.
We will not need any police force when this happens.

Regionalization is happening nationwide and will only grow. This state has Nemlec,Wemlec, Metrostar, Semlec etc. That's a lot of Chiefs and city politicians. They aren't going any where fast so don't hold your breath. Now the sheriffs are involved. The sheriffs are powerful politicians. They will only strenghthen these regional teams. I hear my sheriff in Middlesex county is buying a boat soon. Nemlec is growing, like I said. A boat today, tomorrow a chopper.
I'm not a yahoo, a trooper, a cop or an English major for that matter. I'm just a taxpayer that knows my state's history. I appreciate any type of cop that puts on a badge and gun to help the public. What I want for my tax money is the fastest team that knows the players, the streets and the neighborhoods. A team that knows how to talk to people. I think in this situation, local cops would be best. They have been doing it the longest.

One more question. Why during the last Nemlec call out in my town, did the state police respond and set up two troopers to pose behind the news cameras? The situation was well in hand by Nemlec. Why were the troopers even there? God help the state police if my grandmother is broken down on RT 93 waiting for help while the state police are setting up a photo shoot at a Nemlec scene, or playing swat down the cape, leaving no one on the highway. Please, do what my taxes are paying for you to do.
Thanks,
Taxpayer1


Posted by: MallPolice

Sounds like you either just got a ticket on the pike or an 85 on the last exam


Posted by: bbelichick

You know, it's obvious that this was written by a poster on this site with absolutely no sack. So instead of owning up to this inaccurate load of BS. he instead claims to be "a taxpayer" What an utter coward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
After reading some of these threads,it is obvious that the Mass. state police want it all. Currently, they feel threatened from the sheriffs and the Nemlec/regional teams. A few years ago, it was the MDC police and the Registry inspectors.
The Merger was forced on the MSP by the Mass Legislature because the other Agencies were deemed a duplication and inefficient. The MSP did NOT want this to happen. So example #1 of you being a lying jerk.

Quote:
Why do the Mass troopers think they are the only police force in the state and think they have a monopoly on policing?
No one is saying the MSP should do all the Policing. The matter at hand is whether local Police should be responding to Towns other than the ones they work in for NON MUTUAL AID Situations. Not "Help, I need a backup" but "Hey, want to come look into this Computer Crime?" That's NOT Mutual Aid. That's an undue expansion. And the MSP Union has every right to protect their work just as Peabody Police would if the Troopers from the Peabody Barracks started answering their 911 calls. I wonder how that would go over?

Quote:
This was an area already covered by full time uniformed cops that have been providing mutual aid to each other since the 1850's.
If another Cop needs backup, go for it. regional Detectives? Acc Recon? No.

Quote:
The state police were created to police the state's highways, and police the towns out west that did not have a police force. This uniformed state police force did not come about until the 1920's.
The state police should concentrate on their primary mission: to police the highways and western Mass.
Never heard of CPAC? K-9? the Airwing? The MSP is also a Tactical Assistance Force. Whether you like it or not.


Quote:
The state police have the nerve to question the police chiefs of Nemlec which was created in the 1960's, before the stop team existed.
What a JOKE! NEMLEC may have existed as a powerless council in the 1960's, but you are being misleading at best and truly a LIAR if you are trying to claim that NEMLEC has been responding in this matter since 1960. More like the late 1990's and they have only gotten their windfall in cash since 9/11 and Ed Flynn.

Quote:
The first police boats were in Boston. Namely Boston PD and the MDC. Quincy, Salem, Gloucester, New Bedford etc. all had police boats before the uniformed state police were created in the 20's. Did the state police not reinvent the wheel 'again' when they tried taking over policing the waterways? That's ok though isn't it? Keep your boats out west.
Nope. The first State Patrol boat was around in 1898 and there have been State Marine Patrols since the 1920's. Sorry you are misinformed.

Quote:
Since the last Spam letter, the Nemlec guys are responding in fully marked cruisers with insurance policies. No more bubble lights.
Weird, then why did one of their guys get yanked over for driving erratically in a van a few months ago? With a bubble light? You're LYING again!


Quote:
If a trooper crashes or a local cop crashes en route to a scene, who pays either way? Insurance policies and tax payers. There goes that argument.
Try explaining why the guy from three towns away was blazing up a state highway in his Personal Car with a cheap light on his dash at 80+ in the BDL. That'll go over well.

Quote:
If the citizens cry about too many tac teams and high taxes, guess which teams will not be funded? It won't be the regional teams. They are here to stay. They have been around since the 1960's and only became stronger since 911. They will go away when terrorism is removed from the planet and we live in Utopia.
Afraid not. Ever since the Globe hopped on Flynn, their funding has been drying up. The City Councils are starting to question the unnecessary expenses. Without the Federal free money, which is very much going away, the LEC's are dead.

Quote:
Regionalization is happening nationwide and will only grow. This state has Nemlec,Wemlec, Metrostar, Semlec etc.
See, there you go again, LYING. There is no "Wemlec". It is a radio channel in Western Mass. I suppose if they start up a TAC team in Western Mass, you will claim "WEMLEC has been around for 30 years!" When in truth they don't do anything. There are no WEMLEC TAC teams, K-9, etc. As far as those Units growing...Wait and see. The worm is turning. Without Federal money...Lecs will go away.


Quote:
That's a lot of Chiefs and city politicians. They aren't going any where fast so don't hold your breath. Now the sheriffs are involved. The sheriffs are powerful politicians. They will only strenghthen these regional teams. I hear my sheriff in Middlesex county is buying a boat soon. Nemlec is growing, like I said. A boat today, tomorrow a chopper.
Keep running your mouth. There are already investigations ongoing. Those days are over. And if you are hitching your wagon to the Sheriffs then you are making a deal with the Devil.

Quote:
I'm not a yahoo, a trooper, a cop or an English major for that matter. I'm just a taxpayer that knows my state's history.
GARBAGE. You are a coward, plain and simple. You are clearly a member of this Site without the intestinal fortitude to sign your screen name. You don't deserve to wear a badge.


Posted by: kttref

Very well said B!


Posted by: THE RP

I agree with belichek in regards to this post....It's actually comical from the outset..

The funniest part is the interjection of the praise of the sheriff in Middlesex...Real cops in the county know exactly whats going on there and want no part of him or his gaggle of praetorian guard that he sends out to play real cop including the real cops in Nemlec. Those guys know that Nemlec took on the sheriffs because they were forced to through that sheriff's connections at the statehouse. They had no choice and he lobbied hard because he thinks it lends to his credibility.. Don't get me wrong there are some more inexperienced people out there who have yet to see the truth or are completely snowed by the counties dog and pony propaganda show but they will eventually see the forest through the trees. You have to wake up my friend. That palace is going to crumble and when the dust settles the only ones left will be the solid guys doing their jobs inside. Not the wannabes driving the boat or the tank. By the way, I didn't realize Billerica House was on an island, thanks.

Stand up and be recognized or sit down and shut up and when you draw comparisons the trick is making sure that you have a sound fundamental base. Without this your basis of fact is flawed. When you use the Middlesex Sheriff as a positive point in any way shape or form as a fundamental basis of your argument that makes it immediately flawed and worthless just on the most simplistic of ethical and moral basis.

So after reading you hilarious cowardly post I draw the conclusion that your opinion is ridiculous and naive and you are a coward.... But thanks for the laugh.


PS.. I'm not so sure you are a member of this site...If you are, you are a bigger coward, if you are not, don't bother, you don't have a clue...


Posted by: Unregistered

[You know, it's obvious that this was written by a poster on this site with absolutely no sack. So instead of owning up to this inaccurate load of BS. he instead claims to be "a taxpayer" ]end quote

Mr. bbelichick, I guess that's an accurate statement. I'm a poster on this site, you're right. How could I be posting on this site if not a poster? I really am a taxpayer as well, believe it or not.
To say I did not pay taxes would make you a liar. No sack? well that's depends. I'm not a regular poster. This is my second posting. I didn't think I could become a member of this site, not being in law enforcement. Hence the posting as a guest being unregistered. What could I contribute to professional police officers, other than a little history. You see, I'm a history buff. I'm partial to military and law enforcement history.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I didn't mean to come across that way. Lately, I have been a regular reader of the boards. It became obvious to me that the troopers in this state act different towards other law enforcement officers. They seem to display an ego that I haven't seen in other states that I lived in over the years. Much bigger states such as NY. PA. FL and CA . These states have larger state police forces, yet seem to get along better with the other area departments. I have travelled a lot for work and have had the opportunity to live in these other states. Please forgive me if I'm wrong.

[The Merger was forced on the MSP by the Mass Legislature because the other Agencies were deemed a duplication and inefficient. The MSP did NOT want this to happen. So example #1 of you being a lying jerk.]end quote

I'm not referring to a merger. My apologies for the miscommunication. When I wrote that the state police want it all, I meant territory. They did not get along with, and disliked the MDC police. Growing up in this state, I remember the rivalry. The rivalry with the MDC police and also the Registry police. It was as though the state police didn't want anyone else to have the authority to stop a car on "their road." Now, years later, they seem to be competing against the local police and sheriffs. Do they get along with anyone? I hope this clarifies my original post. I wasn't lying, again just a misinterpretation. I would say you'd be telling a lie if you deny the rivalry with the above mentioned departments, both past and present.

[Hey, want to come look into this Computer crime?" That's NOT Mutual Aid. That's an undue expansion. And the MSP Union has every right to protect their work just as Peabody Police would if the Troopers from the Peabody Barracks started answering their 911 calls. I wonder how that would go over?]end quote

With all of todays computer crime, whether it's child predators, identification fraud, or stealing through an Ebay auction, I would think the more officers that are investigating these crimes, the better. I want the most for my money, my tax money. This isn't the time or the place for turf wars or egos. That's what I'm referring to. These types of statements {above}.
I thought they closed the Peabody barracks years ago. Wasn't that the one next to the Golden Banana? Anyway, the Peabody officers are busy. They would probably welcome the help answering calls, provided the state police were to get the proper training for these 911 types of emergencies.

[Never heard of CPAC? K-9? the Airwing? The MSP is also a Tactical Assistance Force. Whether you like it or not.]end quote

I have heard of them. Were these units part of the original plan when the state police were created? Or did the department evolve slowly through the years and try to monopolize these positions? The state police was created to work out in western Mass. and to patrol the highways. Like it or not.
The Boston area and the bigger cities and towns already had dogs and investigators. Air wing? I don't think helicopters existed until years after the state police were created. Surely they weren't part of the original plan.

[What a JOKE! NEMLEC may have existed as a powerless council in the 1960's, but you are being misleading at best and truly a LIAR if you are trying to claim that NEMLEC has been responding in this matter since 1960. More like the late 1990's and they have only gotten their windfall in cash since 9/11 and Ed Flynn.] end quote

I never said they responded in this matter since 1960. Reread my post.{I hope you're not an officer by the way} You're not too observant. I said Nemlec was around since the 1960's. . before the stop team existed. Is this a lie? I do know that they responded as a swat team in the 70's because I witnessed it in child hood. Army green, big guns and all. Long before 911.

At least we agree on the recent funding that has strengthened these regional teams and made them stronger since 911. My point is that they were around for years, and 911 assured that they will be around for years to come. Hopefully. The community is much safer.

[Nope. The first State Patrol boat was around in 1898 and there have been State Marine Patrols since the 1920's. Sorry you are misinformed.] end quote

I'm not talking about 5 plain clothes men paddling up the Mystic River in a john boat looking for bootleggers in 1898. I'm talking about marked police boats with uniformed officers. State marine patrols in the 20's, sure, long after the other departments had them. That's my point. {After}. As in reinvention.

[Weird, then why did one of their guys get yanked over for driving erratically in a van a few months ago? With a bubble light? You're LYING again! ]end quote

Not lying, anything is possible. I know recently they are to respond in marked vehicles. I had a chance to witness marked vehicles from at least 10 different communities come into my town not long ago. Out of curiosity, I asked around and that was the answer I got at the scene. Being lucky enough to witness this recent Nemlec call out, and the memories from my youth impressed me to the point where I started an internet search, which led me to this wonderful site. I agree, using one's own vehicle without emergency equipment would delay a response and is dangerous. Good point there.

[Try explaining why the guy from three towns away was blazing up a state highway in his Personal Car with a cheap light on his dash at 80+ in the BDL. That'll go over well.]end quote

I agree, perhaps they should make it a point to only respond if they have access to a marked police vehicle.

[Afraid not. Ever since the Globe hopped on Flynn, their funding has been drying up. The City Councils are starting to question the unnecessary expenses. Without the Federal free money, which is very much going away, the LEC's are dead.] end quote

I don't know Mr bbelichick. They have been around for years and became stronger since 911. I can't see how funding would dry up. Not with the current situation with terrorism in the world, war, the Middle East crisis, the rising violent crime rate etc. I see them getting larger. More departments are joining than are leaving these teams. Maybe in a few years we'll have this conversation again. My money is on Nemlec.

[See, there you go again, LYING. There is no "Wemlec". It is a radio channel in Western Mass. I suppose if they start up a TAC team in Western Mass, you will claim "WEMLEC has been around for 30 years!"]end quote

Sorry, my mistake. Not a lie. There are so many teams that I became confused. { My point}. I meant to say CMLEC. No, not 30 years. I don't believe they are nearly as old as Nemlec. Probably recent, since 911.

[Keep running your mouth. There are alreadyinvestigations ongoing. Those days are over. And if you are hitching your wagon to the Sheriffs then you are making a deal with the Devil.]end quote

I hope you're not referring to these same investigations you referred to in your other posts from a few years ago. They are still on going? Who's investigating them CPAC? My goodness, murders have been solved in less time. Maybe Nemlec should take over the investigations and get things moving.

I'm not hitching anyone's wagon to any sheriff. I alluded to the fact that the sheriffs are powerful politicians, and by them joining a regional team, I would think the team becomes stronger, politically speaking. Strong politics means protection, funding, equipment etc. Meaning the team is not going anywhere. I don't know much about the tactical expertise the sheriffs can offer. Politics and equipment is my point. {Mr bbelichick and RP}. I'm not a policeman, so forgive me if I'm wrong about the politics adding strength, funding, equipment etc.

[GARBAGE. You are a coward, plain and simple. You are clearly a member of this Site without the intestinal fortitude to sign your screen name. You don't deserve to wear a badge.]end quote

I guess you could say I'm a coward. I have the highest respect for anyone in law enforcement and the military. I am a coward because I couldn't do it. I do get scared when things go "bump" in the night, I will admit. The only reason I can sleep is because I know I can pick up the phone, dial 911, and get immediate help. My wife, children and I all sleep better at night knowing that we are protected by the police in our community, and the neighboring communities if need be.

Rp, again, I was referring to the politics and equipment the sheriff brings to the team. I would think this would make the team stronger.{Less likely to be abolished}. This is a political state. Politics seem to run everything here. I didn't know the sheriff had a tank. Wow, I guess that could come in handy when under heavy fire. Thanks. I don't believe the boat for the Middlesex Sheriff will be for island patrol. I was under the impression that the other members of the team could use it anywhere. Sorry for the confusion.

Sorry for the grandmother on the highway jab. I get nervous knowing that she drives home alone on the highway and we depend on the state police to assist her if need be. Sorry if anyone was offended. I became worried seeing two troopers at the Nemlec scene. Knowing that the troopers only have a few men on the street, I became worried for granny thinking no one was on the highway. I shouldn't have rushed to judgement. The troopers could have been part of a public relations team and not assigned to the highway, after all, they were at least a hundred yards away setting up with the news cameras. Again my apologies.

Thank you to the brave men and women who keep our streets, and our country safe.
Taxpayer1.


Posted by: SOT

Let me guess you didn't make the cut for the next class?


Posted by: Curious EMT

Humm, we have two GREAT sides here. Faceup of the week!
One: someone bitching without all the facts
Two: MSP just yelling liar and worried about their jobs

Pass the popcorn, this is going to get fun.


Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curious EMT
Humm, we have two GREAT sides here. Faceup of the week!
One: someone bitching without all the facts
Two: MSP just yelling liar and worried about their jobs

Pass the popcorn, this is going to get fun.
He is a regular member of this site, no doubt about it. That makes him a liar. He also backpedalled on just about every point he tried to make.

A Union's responsibility is to protect jobs. If SPAM didn't fight these unnecessary incursions into their area of responsibility, they would be derelict in their duties.

I guess the point that is being missed here is that when a guy got hired as say, a Peabody cop...as he was being sworn in, was he thinking "Wow, I can't wait to start going to calls in other cities!"


Posted by: popo

Quote:
a Peabody cop...as he was being sworn in, was he thinking "Wow, I can't wait to start going to calls in other cities!"
Who cares where he goes, only a select few from the PD get selected and go to the other communities. The others do it every single day, it's called mutual aid.


Posted by: Curious EMT

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbelichick

I guess the point that is being missed here is that when a guy got hired as say, a Peabody cop...as he was being sworn in, was he thinking "Wow, I can't wait to start going to calls in other cities!"
no. you missed the point.


Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curious EMT
no. you missed the point.
No, I did not. The point is, If you are hired as a Peabody cop, THAT"S YOUR JOB. Not to play SWAT in another town, not investigate Computer Crimes or do Accident Reconstruction in a town 30 miles away. You are a CITY COP. End of story. If you want to be all over the State, take the MSP test. If you want to be all over the Country, take a Fed test. Again, Mutual Aid is being bastardized to fit local Chief's power grabs. Mutual Aid means, the sh*t is hitting the fan, I need help. Not routine call outs, investigations, etc.

For those of you participating in the LECs, I guess you have to ask yourself...Why am I doing this? Am I helping the town I was sworn to protect? Does me blazing down the Highway 4 towns away somehow benefit the taxpayers who are paying my salary?

Every Department in this Commonwealth has a function. C/O's guard prisoners. Local Police patrol their cities or twons. The State Police patrol their Highways, properties, assist local towns and are the Statewide Tactical Force in this Commonwealth. They are, BY STATUTE, the DA's Death Investigators. And for the guy who said that Peabody wouldn't mind the MSP answering their 911 calls, give me a break.

Do YOUR job.


Posted by: Curious EMT

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbelichick
No, I did not.
YES you did

remember this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
Why do the state police in the smallest states have the biggest egos?
Thats the point.

Quit your SPAM LEC's bs already. Its old. Nothing is happening to them. Ever. And you guys are just a bunch of whining bitches in the eyes of the entire state. Always have been, this is just one more thing you guys complain about.


Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curious EMT
YES you did

remember this?

Thats the point.

Quit your SPAM LEC's bs already. Its old. Nothing is happening to them. Ever. And you guys are just a bunch of whining bitches in the eyes of the entire state. Always have been, this is just one more thing you guys complain about.
Oh...I didn't realize that you were the expert and spokesperson for "the entire State".

As far as what is happening with the LECs...You have no clue. You just know what you read in the papers and what is told around the locker room. Flynn is tied to Romney and neither Kerry Healey or Reilly will keep him around. He is like so many onthers, he has done his damage and he will move on.

If you think that the Federal Money is never ending and will continue to keep the LECs funded, you are SADLY mistaken. After that, it is up to the Cities and towns to pick up the tab. The best example I can think of here is Springfield. Springfield used a Federal grant to hire 100 cops but the grant required that the City pick up the tab after the Grant expired. They didn't, and 75 guys lost their jobs. If you think that Cities will blindly fund your LEC activities you don't know how Government works. The Chiefs can only sell this for so long...and then it's over.

Tell me...How long have you been a full time Police Officer?

Oh, ok.


Posted by: Unregistered

I love this country. Where else can a private citizen post his thoughts on the internet and not have them deleted or face government intimidation. Thank you U.S Military, police officers everywhere. You make this country what it is..thank you all.

Mr Popo, you touched on some of the points I was getting at in another thread. I wish I could post there but not being an officer, I have to stay on this thread. Sorry for the inconvenience.

That story about stopping a police vehicle en route to a call out is mind boggling. If that was done while the vehicle was responding to my community, I'm sure the residents would be up in arms. They would be calling their state reps, the governor, the newspapers and everyone else. That's childish. Live's are at stake. That's my point about the state police ego and turf war. {If I can't play, give me my ball back.}

Mr. Popo, I also heard a similar story. A few years ago, two Nemlec members were stopped and issued tickets on Rt- 3. I believe the were heading towards Lowell, or another town up that way.
I can't believe this stuff is happening. Isn't there a law on the books about interfering with police officers. If not, there should be. Anyway, I heard the police chiefs around the state went bananas. The stand off ended peacefully, thank goodness, and the tickets were taken back.
I still shake my head to this day when I think about the behavior of some of those troopers.

[quote, If MY police department can't protect ME and MY family in MY town and MY schools and MY streets 24/7, LIKE I PAY YOU TO DO.........why should I pay you to play somewhere else, occassionally or not.] end quote.

Trooper, they can and usually do protect your family. It's not a guarantee, nothing in life is. Teach your wife to shoot, just incase.{ Look at the L.A. riots}. The police try there best, but can't always be there. They are there 99.99% of the time though. Just think, if there's trouble in your town, or school, a small army {Nemlec}will be there to help your children. That must be comforting, knowing that officers from all around are coming to there aid. I know it comforts me.

Again, you bring up my point about getting my money's worth out of my taxes. I pay taxes for over 2100 troopers. I don't understand this number considering the state is so small. Anyway, out of that 2100, I would venture to guess that there aren't 1/3 third of them assigned to the road. What are they doing? I'm paying them to police the highways, assist disabled motorists {My grandmother} and to keep the free flow of traffic. I'm not paying outrageous taxes to have them in the communities. We have a local police force. {I don't live out west}. Please do your primary job. Thank you.
You bring up a valid point about unchecked task forces. What is the other 2/3's of the state police force doing. Who's watching them? They could be hiding anywhwere in the state.

Popo, your post about the state stop team not helping out at the DNC reminds me of another story I heard. In the late 90's, Nemlec had a hostage stand off right in the middle of Rt-2 in Concord. It was a vehicle they had been pursuing. When the state police stop team showed up, Nemlec would not stand aside. They completed what they had started and the story had a happy ending. Well, the state police were so angry, they did not show up to the semi annual swat challenge at Camp Curtis in Wakefield Ma. It was embarrassing. Agency's came from all across the country to participate. Every one was there but the hosting state's state police. Maybe they were just worried about losing, who knows. Then again, at least someone was on the highway. Thank you troopers.

[quote,You see, that's your problem. The MSP may have primary responsibility on the highway, but they have jurisdiction EVERYWHERE. So, for you to say "stay on the highway", well I guess that's your mistake.
If they want to set up and run radar on your Main Street, they can. It has been done in the past.
And I am trying o understand this : The MSP should "stay on the highways" but it's ok for a PD to send a few of their guys screaming up the Highway to a town 30 miles away for a call? Hilarious.
If an MSP cruiser shows up at a call of yours, it's likely because he wants to make sure you are all set and then he will either offer assistance or leave. It just shows what an inferiority complex you have if that bothers you.] end quote

Mr bbelichick, I hear that officers call that concurrent jurisdiction. Correct me if I'm wrong. Can't a city or town run radar up on the highway the same way a trooper can tun radar on Main Street? I think that has been done in the past as well. I have seen plenty of local cruisers stop cars on state roads, I guess it goes both ways. The only problem is that there are more local cruisers statewide. If this happened too much, there wouldn't be a need for the state police on the highway either. Be careful of the stones you throw.

Regarding why Spam fought for the Quinn Bill. Umm, how would a cop say? Perhaps for {Their own ass.} I agree with Popo. I hear that many cities and towns have it in their contract, that the city or town will pick up the tab if the state backs out. That's good. I want the smartest, most educated cops protecting my community. I want my tax dollars worth. I'm sure my neighbors feel the same and would come to bat for the local officers.

Mr bbelichick, I think you are defining the term "mutual aid" to benefit the state police. Where does it say "only in certain emergencies" or "only certain neighboring jurisdictions." I looked up mutual in the dictionary. From the way I understood it, a chief calling for help for any reason, and getting a response from anywhere and from any number of officers, would be considered " mutual." Providing he gets the same in return. Look it up if you don't believe me. Maybe you're confusing the written law granting this authority with the actual definition of mutual aid. Maybe an officer can help us out.

One more thing I would like to ask before I get ready for the 9-5 week ahead. I remember years ago, the city of Chelsea was in tuff shape financially. The cops were out manned and out gunned. They didn't have enough officers for the street due to financial constraints. They were in recievership. Anyway, the state police came in. I remember it well now that I think about it. The state police came in and tried taking over. They were snubbing the battle hardened short handed Chelsea cops. Showing off their boots and trying to pull rank. I hear they didn't even talk to the Chelsea officers at roll call.{It was Chelsea's roll call}. They ignored the police chief and belittled him. It was a terrible time. The officers from Chelsea were better off alone. Too bad they weren't part of a regional team. They would have gotten all the help they could handle, without the attitude and ego.

Guess who that police chief was? You guessed it, Evil Eddie Flynn. Yup, it came back to bite the state police in the ass years later. I'm sure you officers already knew this. Just trying to enlighten the other civilian readers of the site.

The moral of the story is," The attitude and ego of the state police will be their demise."

Thank you Mr bbelichick, Mr Popo, Mr Emt. I enjoyed the dialogue and had fun as well. Maybe we will continue this next week. Thank you again.
Thank you officers everywhere, thank you military. We love you.

Taxpayer1.


Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
That story about stopping a police vehicle en route to a call out is mind boggling. If that was done while the vehicle was responding to my community, I'm sure the residents would be up in arms. They would be calling their state reps, the governor, the newspapers and everyone else. That's childish. Live's are at stake. That's my point about the state police ego and turf war. {If I can't play, give me my ball back.}
I'm sure they would call and complain because the State Police were getting flooded with 911 calls about a VAN, with Ladders on the roof, a small blue light, operating erratically, swerving and driving at excessive speeds. Perhaps the Troopers should have just waved as he swerved past? And what should they have done when he REFUSED to identify himself, despite being in civilian clothes ?


Quote:
I can't believe this stuff is happening. Isn't there a law on the books about interfering with police officers. If not, there should be. Anyway, I heard the police chiefs around the state went bananas. The stand off ended peacefully, thank goodness, and the tickets were taken back.
I wonder if "interfering" applies when said Police Officers are out of their jurisdictions, driving like maniacs, in personal vehicles, enroute to towns they don't even work in? I doubt it.


Quote:
Again, you bring up my point about getting my money's worth out of my taxes. I pay taxes for over 2100 troopers. I don't understand this number considering the state is so small. Anyway, out of that 2100, I would venture to guess that there aren't 1/3 third of them assigned to the road. What are they doing? I'm paying them to police the highways, assist disabled motorists {My grandmother} and to keep the free flow of traffic. I'm not paying outrageous taxes to have them in the communities. We have a local police force. {I don't live out west}. Please do your primary job.
The MSP's "primary" jobs are many. They include Road Patrol, Tactical Ops, Dive Team, Air Wing, Detectives, Narcotics, Gang Units, and about a million other things. Guys like you who try to imply that they only do highway patrol are just being dishonest and trying to make your point with faulty information.



Quote:
Regarding why Spam fought for the Quinn Bill. Umm, how would a cop say? Perhaps for {Their own ass.} I agree with Popo. I hear that many cities and towns have it in their contract, that the city or town will pick up the tab if the state backs out.
You cannot really be this naive, can you? You really believe that the towns would 100% fund Quinn? NO WAY. It would be GONE.

Quote:
That's good. I want the smartest, most educated cops protecting my community. I want my tax dollars worth. I'm sure my neighbors feel the same and would come to bat for the local officers.
WOW! I guess you aren't very bright. The general public would LOVE to see Quinn go away. They see it as a big taxpayer funded perk. Trust me, if it were put to a voter approval, Quinn would be GONE.

Quote:
The state police came in and tried taking over. They were snubbing the battle hardened short handed Chelsea cops. Showing off their boots and trying to pull rank. I hear they didn't even talk to the Chelsea officers at roll call.{It was Chelsea's roll call}. They ignored the police chief and belittled him. It was a terrible time. The officers from Chelsea were better off alone. Too bad they weren't part of a regional team. They would have gotten all the help they could handle, without the attitude and ego.
The State Police were ORDERED in, and forced to work for Flynn. They were the ones who were snubbed and treated like trash. Your information is wrong, and you are misinformed...but I don't suppose that will stop you from posting.

And stop the "taxpayer1" garbage. You are a coward. Everyone knows it. Why don't you sign your real screen name? Because you are a weak minded COWARD.


Posted by: SOT

It's simple:

If your a local cop, stay in your jurisdiction. Until such time as there is no crime, no overtime, no budget shortfalls...you have more than enough to do right in the confines of you own little town.

If you want a bigger jurisdiction, join the State Police, want bigger than that join the FBI...

I'm a tax payer too and I sure don't want my taxes going to pay for police to go to conferences, getting training, and buying equipment to buddy up and extend their jurisdiction.

It would be like paying corections officers to do chapter 90 work...totally absurd...

If my police are off helping someone else...who's minding the store in my town.....ummm no one.


Posted by: NH Cop

Progression. I started as a local Police officer. I stayed within the town limits, unless asked to assist other agencies under the written mutual aid pack. I knew when I was sworn in that I worked for the town I was hired in, not Salem, or Plaistow. I figured I might as well become a state cop. Not so I can step on local agencies. I’m always amazed when fellow officers in my agencies will not reach out to the local PD’s before investigating a bad guy or business. They just might get some good information. Apparently we are better then them. Our sh_ _ does not stink attitude. Why is that? Seems like the only time we get along is at a fellow officer’s funeral.



Good to see a lot of feed back and different points. Be safe out there ladies and gentleman.




Posted by: tango2

Sounds like somebody has a hair across there ass.


Posted by: bbelichick

Homeland absurdity: Anti-terror funds going to leafy ’burbs
By Dave Wedge
Wednesday, August 3, 2005 - Updated: 03:42 AM EST

State officials have doled out millions in coveted federal anti-terror cash to questionably qualified suburban towns for radios, souped-up trucks, riot gear, plasma TVs and other high-tech equipment, a Herald review found.

Among the findings:


Oak Bluffs, Martha's Vineyard (population 17,000) netted $260,000 in 2003 for chemical/bio-terror response equipment;


Raynham (population 12,000) got $460,000 in 2004 for a "rail-based information sharing demonstration project";


Concord netted $1.7 million for a regional "anti-terrorism first responder program," with local officials maintaining, "As the birthplace of the American Revolution . . . Concord holds great symbolic value and itself represents a potential target for terrorists."


Five other part-time regional law enforcement groups based in Lee, North Andover, Waltham, Everett and Natick each raked in more than the $1 million given in 2003 to state police, which is Massachusetts' lead Homeland Security agency.

"Unfortunately this is not unusual. There are a lot of areas in the country that get Department of Homeland Security money for items they will never use and don't need but they're all happy to get the money," said Tom Schatz, president of the Washington, D.C.-based watchdog group Citizens Against Government Waste.

Katie Ford, spokeswoman for the Executive Office of Public Safety, which hands out Homeland Security funds, acknowledged that lax oversight during a change of administration in 2003 led to some questionable grants

"Whoever wrote the best grant application got the money," Ford said. "It was an imperfect system but it was the best we could do in the time the federal government gave us to get the money out the door." EOPS now uses a regional Homeland Security plan "based on threat vulnerability and risk-assessment," she added.

Millions in federal dollars have gone to regional "law enforcement councils" – called LECs – which are part-time SWAT teams made up of local police officers. LECs are often called out for back-up at major events while some towns call them instead of state police for major incidents. Critics argue they cause confusion and duplicate state police services.

North Andover, which handled $1.2 million for the Northeastern Massachusetts LEC, spent $100,000 on a converted Ford F-550 rapid deployment vehicle, $12,350 for a 50-inch plasma TV and $150,000 on 40 portable radios with microphone headsets, records show.

LECs no longer directly receive Homeland Security funding because of past "fiscal management problems," Ford said.

The Herald also found that Massachusetts shelled out $1.1 million in Homeland Security money for state police overtime for the Democratic National Convention, $262,000 for the World Series and $24,600 for the visit of the USS JFK aircraft carrier. World Series security cost an additional $12,677 for National Guard help and $171,602 for back-up from the Department of Correction.

Several towns also paid up to $50,000 a month in taxpayer dollars to Crest Associates, a consulting firm that was the subject of a federal probe into alleged misuse of Homeland Security money, documents show.

Two law enforcement officials said the probe apparently ended after the 2004 suicide of Crest founder Richard St. Louis, a former top public safety official under fire for his handling of anti-terror grant money.


Posted by: THE RP

More unregistered guests...How nice...

The bottom line is spending money on resources that are already available..Take that money and put it where it is needed. like stations, cruisers, radios, gear etc...Not on things that are already available...It's not about ego. I am a local, have had great success working with the state, and they already have resources for us to tap into that are being copied by the regional groups. Not really needed. Waste and it convolutes how things are done. The same waste that we despise with the county clowns is being repeated and emulated by the councils. Put the money where it's needed for real and then and only then look other places.


Posted by: Pvt. Cowboy

Okay, forgive the rookie, but what the hell is a Nemlec/Seplec/ABCDEFGlec?

I gather it's a group of non-state law enforcement personnel, but what do they do specifically?


Posted by: popo

Quote:
Springfield used a Federal grant to hire 100 cops but the grant required that the City pick up the tab after the Grant expired. They didn't, and 75 guys lost their job
Bbelichek you are comparing apples and oranges again. I write some of these grants and you are refering to a COPS Grant that allow the hiring of more officers to hit the streets. This was huge during the Clinton Administration when they wanted to add 100,000 more officers on the streets ,but Bush has cut the program significantly, actually almost 100%. The COPS Grant says the Feds pay 100% 1st year, 75% second year, 50% third year and then the community picks up the tab. A retention and strategic plan has to be submitted by the City to the feds on how they will retain these officers once the grant runs out. What happened ,was that most communities relied on growth formulas and increased tax bases as well as retirements to come up with $$$ to pay for these positions. Springfield, is a shithole run by corrupt politicians, and therefore they lied on their grant applications which left lots of officers without jobs. Once you lay off grant funded officers ,your department cannot receive any future COPS grants, ever, so they screwed themselves. Those were totally different grants and were around many years before Flynn. These regionalization grants are almost all funded by the feds for equipment and are non-personnel(new hires) grants. Those along with COPS MORE grants which again were around forever, as well as BYRNE grants and BLOC grants are used to fund various purchases. Now if you look at NEMLEC, I believe they are over 30 communities strong, mostly upscale affluent towns and cities, they only have about 12 SWAT team guys. How much $$$ do you actually think it costs from all those communities to pay for the training, don't forget the grants pay for 50% of the officers salaries, which means the PDs actually pinch in less then the officers base non-overtime rate. See you guys can twist the facts all you want to benefit your arguement and if SPAM told you that LECs are going away, then it's time for new leadership in the Association. WHoever gets elected as governor, will befriend the 351 Chiefs then just one Colonel. MSP was asked numerous times and still are being asked to come play but they refuse. Plenty of $$$ for everyone guys, don't bite the hand that can feed you.


Posted by: Unregistered

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curious EMT
Humm, we have two GREAT sides here. Faceup of the week!
One: someone bitching without all the facts
Two: MSP just yelling liar and worried about their jobs

Pass the popcorn, this is going to get fun.
Now Curious EMT is definitely one that didn't make the cut! What would be more fun is to see your reaction when you got your score!


Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:
Originally Posted by popo
See you guys can twist the facts all you want to benefit your arguement and if SPAM told you that LECs are going away, then it's time for new leadership in the Association.
...Katie Ford, spokeswoman for the Executive Office of Public Safety, which hands out Homeland Security funds, acknowledged that lax oversight during a change of administration in 2003 led to some questionable grants

LECs no longer directly receive Homeland Security funding because of past "fiscal management problems," Ford said.

===========================
And if you think that there won't be more of a spotlight turned on the LEC's and their funding...


Posted by: bbelichick

Popo, how about this little test. Take a glance on your shoulder patch. What does it say?

That's where you work.


Posted by: popo

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbelichick
Popo, how about this little test. Take a glance on your shoulder patch. What does it say?

That's where you work.
Like I said before, my deparment and I are not members of an LEC as we have our own SWAT, recon,detectives,gang,traffic,motorcycles , so I don't care but I know when you guys are wrong and I'm trying to get you guys to play together. Come on now.


Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:
Originally Posted by popo
Like I said before, my deparment and I are not members of an LEC as we have our own SWAT, recon,detectives,gang,traffic,motorcycles , so I don't care but I know when you guys are wrong and I'm trying to get you guys to play together. Come on now.
Ya know, it's easy to sit in your living room and say we're wrong, but imagine one day you wake up, there's a new Governor and a new Comm of Pub Safety (say, oh, I don't know...John DiFava?) and the MSP starts answering your 911 calls and doing your Detective's work. Your Mayor thinks it great because it saves him money, your Chief says his hands are tied because "The Secretary of Public Safety is my boss" and the Secretary thinks his new concept "Consolidation" is the wave of the future.

Everyone thinks it's about money, but if it ever happens to you, you realize real quick it's about PRIDE in what you do.

Popo, if you don't belong to a LEC, great.

Those that do can take my simple Shoulder Patch test.


Posted by: dfc2502

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
The state police were created to police the state's highways, and police the towns out west that did not have a police force. This uniformed state police force did not come about until the 1920's.
The state police should concentrate on their primary mission: to police the highways and western Mass.
Just because I enjoy reading all this nonsense.
The MSP was the first state wide police agency in the U.S., created in 1865. Yes, the uniformed branch came about in 1920. Prior to that they were all detectives.


Posted by: tango2

Why dont you stop crying. Did you get a ticket or score low on the exam. What is your line of work screwball.


Posted by: USMCTrooper

LEC's are proof that regionalizing forces expand capabilities, resources, improves incident response times....hey wait....it makes a better police force!

Why have 15 smaller not equally balanced police departments running hither and dither when we can have one high speed, regional police department!!! Everyone will wear the same uniform, drive the same cruisers to avoid confusion, have our own swat teams, recon, k-9 and we can cover all the cities in towns in this area!! The MSP won't be able to complain about jurisdiction issues, liability, response in PC's, etc etc

Awesome!!.....Fuck the MSP! We will show that a region wide police agency covering the communities in areas like Middlesex county or Worcester county can serve the citizens better.........wait.........what's that....huh...our new boss is Sheriff who?? Where did he come from???

The preceeding message is a satorical yet possibility of future events if left unchecked.

I personally don't see why any local agency would welcome being in a LEC. The same argument Troopers make against LEC's is and will be the very same argument those LEC's use when the sheriffs slip in through the back door.


Posted by: bbelichick

Screw all that Sheriff BS. I say we form an agency with STATEWIDE jurisdiction. It can have Tactical Teams, SWAT, K-9, Marine Units...even a Helicopter! They will all wear the same Uniform, have take home, fully Marked Cruisers, and we can have them go to a 6 month long, highly intensive Academy. They can have Detectives, Narcotics, Gang Units, Computer Forensics, Ballistics, Crime Labs... Man, that would be incredible...

Oh ya...Been there, done that.


Posted by: Killjoy

Quote:
I have the highest respect for anyone in law enforcement and the military
Yeah, you seem to be a real law enforcement booster.......

Quote:
I'm not talking about 5 plain clothes men paddling up the Mystic River in a john boat looking for bootleggers in 1898.
Quote:
I thought they closed the Peabody barracks years ago. Wasn't that the one next to the Golden Banana? Anyway, the Peabody officers are busy. They would probably welcome the help answering calls, provided the state police were to get the proper training for these 911 types of emergencies.
Quote:
They seem to display an ego that I haven't seen in other states that I lived in over the years. Much bigger states such as NY. PA. FL and CA .
You don't seem to have a serious opinion about anything but your intense dislike for the MSP....how about the CT SP, or RISP. or NJSP? Organizations that share similiar missions and values as the MSP. Should they disband and leave the policing to the local professionals? You know.....they are in small states, maybe this fits in with your hypothesis:

Quote:
Why do the state police in the smallest states have the biggest egos?
You should check out Maryland, Delaware, New Hampshire and Vermont state police...maybe you're on to something. Maybe you should get on the phone with the governors of all the small states and see if you can straighten them out! Then again....maybe you should leave policing to the professionals and I'll leave flying to the pilots and medicine to the doctors.


Posted by: BufordTJustice

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOT_II
It's simple:

If your a local cop, stay in your jurisdiction. Until such time as there is no crime, no overtime, no budget shortfalls...you have more than enough to do right in the confines of you own little town.

If you want a bigger jurisdiction, join the State Police, want bigger than that join the FBI...

I'm a tax payer too and I sure don't want my taxes going to pay for police to go to conferences, getting training, and buying equipment to buddy up and extend their jurisdiction.

It would be like paying corections officers to do chapter 90 work...totally absurd...

If my police are off helping someone else...who's minding the store in my town.....ummm no one.
No offence but could you please stop bad mouthing the towns and cities...I see your point of staying in your own areas but it goes both ways....you want us to stay in are own little towns or cities then stay out until called..P.S. never took the MSP exam and never had any urge to take it. Have a few buddies from MSP out there and we dont have to compare patches or anything like that. To each their own. Stay safe.


Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice
No offence but could you please stop bad mouthing the towns and cities...I see your point of staying in your own areas but it goes both ways....you want us to stay in are own little towns or cities then stay out until called..P.S. never took the MSP exam and never had any urge to take it. Have a few buddies from MSP out there and we dont have to compare patches or anything like that. To each their own. Stay safe.
I am trying to grasp what you are getting at. If the cities leave their JURISDICTION to perform work that belong to another Agency, this is the same as an MSP Trooper coming into your town to assist you? What kind of messed up logic is that? The MSP has Statewide jurisdiction. A City Police Officer is a Police Officer in his City.


Posted by: Curious EMT

Notice that MSP keeps reverting off the topic to push their agenda? I see lots of words, but all i hear is whaa whaa whaa....


Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curious EMT
Notice that MSP keeps reverting off the topic to push their agenda? I see lots of words, but all i hear is whaa whaa whaa....
You can't see the writing on the wall? Boston PD hates the Lecs too. Wait until the other major PD's line up to condemn them. 9 months and counting until Romney and Flynn leave and the Lecs are left flapping around .


Posted by: SOT

I'm not badmouthing anyone. I'm saying if you want to do state wide or work in a larger jurisdiction..do so by joining the right agency.

I totally agree that when the MSP wasn't doing the STOP team thing...yeah locals would have to buddy up...but now it's just silly and a waste of taxpayer money.

There's plenty to do at home, no need to go a couple towns over to enforce the law....
same with corrections, god love 'em they have a crappy job...but no need to patrol...
there's PLENTY of crime in the jails.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice
No offence but could you please stop bad mouthing the towns and cities...I see your point of staying in your own areas but it goes both ways....you want us to stay in are own little towns or cities then stay out until called..P.S. never took the MSP exam and never had any urge to take it. Have a few buddies from MSP out there and we dont have to compare patches or anything like that. To each their own. Stay safe.



Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbelichick
I am trying to grasp what you are getting at. If the cities leave their JURISDICTION to perform work that belong to another Agency, this is the same as an MSP Trooper coming into your town to assist you?
We only leave the city at the request of another municipality, a.k.a. mutual aid. That's a huge difference from the trooper who decides to add his flashing lights to the half-dozen or so city cruisers already on-scene. As I mentioned before, if we need help, you can bet we'll ask for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbelichick
What kind of messed up logic is that? The MSP has Statewide jurisdiction. A City Police Officer is a Police Officer in his City.
Once again, you're confusing jurisdiction with responsibility. The last I checked, the Massachusetts Environmental Police also have statewide jurisdiction, yet I've never seen them show-up at any of our calls, unless we request them, even though I see them quite a bit because at least two EPO's live in Quincy. Likewise, the MBTA/Transit Police have full jurisdiction in something like 175 cities & towns, yet they don't show-up at our calls, once again, unless we request them, or they get waved down on one of our streets. If they do get waved down, they'll stand-by until we arrive in sufficient numbers, then they disappear.

If the state police staffed the former MDC Police stations properly, you wouldn't see many city/town cops in the greater Boston area getting upset. When the Mets were around, no one really cared if they poached, because there was so many of them that there would almost always be enough other Mets to handle calls on their roads. Whenever I see a MSP cruiser show-up at one of my calls, my first thought is that my guys are going to get stuck with an accident on a state road, since every former MDC station I know of only runs two troopers on the road.

As I mentioned in another post, the primary responsibility (much different from jurisdiction) of the uniformed Massachusetts State Police is traffic enforcement on interstate highways/state roads. Someone please correct me, if I'm wrong.

The primary responsibility of city police in Massachusetts is to respond to 911 calls, which includes domestics, bar fights, overdoses, murders, drug-dealing, and the myriad of other locally-based crimes.

We (city police) don't want to be involved in your area of primary responsibility (traffic enforcement), so don't get involved with ours. It's not really a hard concept to understand.


Posted by: lawdog671

Im just curious where everyone who says MSP has a PRIMARY duty to perform traffic duty came from? Is that taught at the academy you attended? Last I checked MSP gets training in domestic violence, responds to bar fights, makes large drug seizures...maybe I missed something. Point I think that everyone misses is when LEC officers leave my town to assist another who covers my town? Another town officer on OT? And lets face it, mutual aid was intended for immediate assistance, not for incidents where there is no emergency. Otherwise its duplicitous and a waste of money so someone can play. My hometown IS part of CMLEC and they have 4 Harleys for the bike unit. Funny but they only staff 3 guys per shift. This is the kind of waste people hate to see thats all. And I wonder how often the 100,000 dollar armored car is used?


Posted by: SinePari

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta784
As I mentioned in another post, the primary responsibility (much different from jurisdiction) of the uniformed Massachusetts State Police is traffic enforcement on interstate highways/state roads. Someone please correct me, if I'm wrong.
I don't know if that's entirely true. I've never seen a mission statement or given a directive to stay on the highway or state road. From the MSP website:

"Patrolling assigned areas, accident investigations, following up on complaints, investigating felonies and other crimes, issuing traffic citations, obtaining evidence and testifying in court, rendering and summoning medical aid, directing traffic, conducting arrests, community policing and engaging in crime prevention and reduction measures."

In one aspect, I don't mind staying on the big road, but I'm glad my Lt never said "stay on the highway, don't go into town". The big road (if your barracks has one) channelizes all people into a nice, compact observation zone, like going through security at an airport. You can see almost everyone and everything, and they're in your house. Unlike going into the bad guys house.

On Rt 290, we see Auburn PD hammering people all day long, and we don't care. Out west we have every agency from CT to VT nailing people on Rt 91. I've been in every city and town that has Rt 91 go through it and never had a complaint or a dirty look. There's plenty to go around, why get upset? I personally like to get off the road every now and then, but hover around the on/off ramps.

The substance of disdain comes from the MSP road Trooper to do as he pleases. If there are no crashes to investigate, or calls to the hillbilly towns, he can be a Gretzky (a "floater") and go wherever he chooses.


Posted by: Wolfman

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta784
We only leave the city at the request of another municipality, a.k.a. mutual aid.
I'm sure the Troopers only leave the STATE (their jurisdiction) when they are instructed to.
Quote:
That's a huge difference from the trooper who decides to add his flashing lights to the half-dozen or so city cruisers already on-scene. As I mentioned before, if we need help, you can bet we'll ask for it.
...And I'm sure if a Trooper comes by to see if everyone's all set and is told that everything is, in fact, all set, he will continue on his way. Now, on the other hand, when the half dozen cruisers are there due to a hit and run with a bloody corpse on the deck, and they tell the Trooper, "We're looking for a red Honda with a black hood" and the Trooper just happens to have seen that vehicle in a parking lot two blocks away, well, maybe then it's a good thing that he stopped by.
Quote:
Once again, you're confusing jurisdiction with responsibility. The last I checked, the Massachusetts Environmental Police also have statewide jurisdiction, yet I've never seen them show-up at any of our calls, unless we request them, even though I see them quite a bit because at least two EPO's live in Quincy.
EPO->MSP = Apples->Oranges. Get many moose wandering the streets of Quincy? Maybe then you'd see the EPO's more often.
Quote:
If the state police staffed the former MDC Police stations properly, you wouldn't see many city/town cops in the greater Boston area getting upset. When the Mets were around, no one really cared if they poached, because there was so many of them that there would almost always be enough other Mets to handle calls on their roads. Whenever I see a MSP cruiser show-up at one of my calls, my first thought is that my guys are going to get stuck with an accident on a state road, since every former MDC station I know of only runs two troopers on the road.
"Poached"? "My" call? Are you afraid that the MSP will lock up all the bad guys and there won't be any left for you? Talk about arrogance!

Quote:
As I mentioned in another post, the primary responsibility (much different from jurisdiction) of the uniformed Massachusetts State Police is traffic enforcement on interstate highways/state roads. Someone please correct me, if I'm wrong.
You're wrong. You stand corrected.

Quote:
The primary responsibility of city police in Massachusetts is to respond to 911 calls, which includes domestics, bar fights, overdoses, murders, drug-dealing, and the myriad of other locally-based crimes.
Correct. In their localities. Hence the whole LEC dispute.

Quote:
We (city police) don't want to be involved in your area of primary responsibility (traffic enforcement), so don't get involved with ours. It's not really a hard concept to understand.
You polled exactly how many officers to reach this summary? I think you need to get out of your bubble a little more often.


Posted by: Crvtte65

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfman
I'm sure the Troopers only leave the STATE (their jurisdiction) when they are instructed to.
...And I'm sure if a Trooper comes by to see if everyone's all set and is told that everything is, in fact, all set, he will continue on his way. Now, on the other hand, when the half dozen cruisers are there due to a hit and run with a bloody corpse on the deck, and they tell the Trooper, "We're looking for a red Honda with a black hood" and the Trooper just happens to have seen that vehicle in a parking lot two blocks away, well, maybe then it's a good thing that he stopped by.
EPO->MSP = Apples->Oranges. Get many moose wandering the streets of Quincy? Maybe then you'd see the EPO's more often.
"Poached"? "My" call? Are you afraid that the MSP will lock up all the bad guys and there won't be any left for you? Talk about arrogance!

You're wrong. You stand corrected.

Correct. In their localities. Hence the whole LEC dispute.

You polled exactly how many officers to reach this summary? I think you need to get out of your bubble a little more often.
Hahaha, I don't want to get involved with this discussion but holy CRAP that was a great response!!!


Posted by: Killjoy

Hasn't this thing gone WAY off topic........


Posted by: BufordTJustice

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbelichick
I am trying to grasp what you are getting at. If the cities leave their JURISDICTION to perform work that belong to another Agency, this is the same as an MSP Trooper coming into your town to assist you? What kind of messed up logic is that? The MSP has Statewide jurisdiction. A City Police Officer is a Police Officer in his City.
O.K. lets simplify it.....you want city and towns to stay in thier juristiction and not aid neighboring communities when requested. That is messed up logic. Yep lets not cross those city lines to help other officers when they call for back up. Do you even remember the incident in Saugus a few years back at the Diplomat. Saugus was on BAPERN requesting assistance from any north shore agencies. Should these agencies not have responded and let Saugus hang out to dry, didn't think so. Matter of fact a about a year ago didn't MSP have NH State Police in MA helping out with the convention that was being held in Boston. Could swear I passed a couple of NH cruisers staged around more than a few exits along some highways. So from your thinking they should have stayed in thier own juristiction. When it comes right down to it, we are all cops no matter what agency you work for and cops should back up cops and not have to be concerned about some imaginary line they cant cross. If you are in the North Shore feel free to drop by, coffee's on me.


Posted by: Killjoy

That "imaginary" line is called your jurisdiction, stray out of it, well, if everything goes okay, you're a hero, if you screw the pooch, be prepared to be hung out dry...your department will certainly not protect you against lawsuits.


Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice
O.K. lets simplify it.....you want city and towns to stay in thier juristiction and not aid neighboring communities when requested.
NO NO NO NO NO NO.

Not for Aid. For planned, forseeable events. Regional Detectives? Serving warrants out of town? Regional Recon? Garbage.

I am all about backing up another Cop. I will do anything they need. Search for a Bolo, set up a perimeter, wrestle with a guy...WHATEVER. But I guess that's considered "wandering around like a puppy" or "adding lights" by some cops.

The other Major PD's in the State are already getting angry. The LEC's have tread on some pretty powerful unions.


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfman
I'm sure the Troopers only leave the STATE (their jurisdiction) when they are instructed to.
Repeat after me.....jurisdiction and responsibility are different things....if you were actually a cop, you'd understand this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfman
...And I'm sure if a Trooper comes by to see if everyone's all set and is told that everything is, in fact, all set, he will continue on his way.
Uhhhh....no. Once again, if you were actually a cop, you'd understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfman
Now, on the other hand, when the half dozen cruisers are there due to a hit and run with a bloody corpse on the deck, and they tell the Trooper, "We're looking for a red Honda with a black hood" and the Trooper just happens to have seen that vehicle in a parking lot two blocks away, well, maybe then it's a good thing that he stopped by.
They (and every other LE agency in the greater Boston area) would receive that information when we broadcast it over BAPERN 3. Once again, if you were a cop, you'd know this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfman
EPO->MSP = Apples->Oranges. Get many moose wandering the streets of Quincy? Maybe then you'd see the EPO's more often.
Try reading for comprehension. I stated that at least two EPO's live in Quincy, so I see them quite a bit. They've only registered on my radar screen once, when a domestic literally spilled onto the hood of one of their SUV's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfman
"Poached"? "My" call? Are you afraid that the MSP will lock up all the bad guys and there won't be any left for you? Talk about arrogance!
Once again, try reading for comprehension. When the troopers assigned to South Boston are tied-up with poaching a city/town call, we get stuck with their accidents/calls on state roads in the city. That's not arrogance, it's called taking care of your own house.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfman
You're wrong. You stand corrected.
Please provide proof of your conclusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfman
You polled exactly how many officers to reach this summary? I think you need to get out of your bubble a little more often.
About every other officer I work with. Perhaps you should don a vest, strap-on a gun, and actually work a single shift as a cop before you comment about the profession.


Posted by: dcs2244

I remember a "mutual aid" event a few years ago at "King Arthurs"...a whole bunch of cops lost their jobs...which was good for my classmate because it created a position for him! No troopers were "poaching" that night, so the SP escaped unscathed...as did the MDC, Registry, Capitol, and Environmental Police Departments. Quincy PD also escaped unscathed...reckon they didn't get there in time...or maybe they missed the BAPERN call out.


Posted by: Clouseau

DCS, you must admit that thing she was doing with the pole was...oh, you mean the fight?

bbelichick, what's the line this weekend, you light adder you?

Wolfman, if you were out patrolling and not howling at the moon all night, maybe you'd know.

This is the stuff that keeps me coming back. Just when I think I'm out, they pull me back in.








Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouseau
bbelichick, what's the line this weekend, you light adder you?
As long as Pittsburgh loses, I am happy.

Wouldn't be bad to see a local boy (Hasselbeck) do well either.


Posted by: dcs2244

Pittsburgh rules, Seattle drools.


Posted by: SOT

Wow what don't you understand....

There's a difference between mutual aid at request and setting up an organization with dues, separate training requirements, getting grants that should go to primary agencies, planning manpower events and towns having to pay for that....I mean it's that simple.

A totally separate organization that is comprised of police agencies helping towns and counties over is NOT the same thing as one town assisting on a call out with another town.
Next thing you know there will be civilian LEC(CEC) and they will have cars with lights and patrol...just to help out...right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice
O.K. lets simplify it.....you want city and towns to stay in thier juristiction and not aid neighboring communities when requested. That is messed up logic. Yep lets not cross those city lines to help other officers when they call for back up. Do you even remember the incident in Saugus a few years back at the Diplomat. Saugus was on BAPERN requesting assistance from any north shore agencies. Should these agencies not have responded and let Saugus hang out to dry, didn't think so. Matter of fact a about a year ago didn't MSP have NH State Police in MA helping out with the convention that was being held in Boston. Could swear I passed a couple of NH cruisers staged around more than a few exits along some highways. So from your thinking they should have stayed in thier own juristiction. When it comes right down to it, we are all cops no matter what agency you work for and cops should back up cops and not have to be concerned about some imaginary line they cant cross. If you are in the North Shore feel free to drop by, coffee's on me.



Posted by: Killjoy

Citizens on Patrol! I love it!!


Posted by: Piper

I would weigh in on this one (again) but I just don't have it in me this time,
from where do you find the strength bbelichick?


Posted by: Wolfman

Howling is my favorite pastime.

OWOOOOOO!!!

[oz]...If I only was a cop.....[/oz]

Yah, maybe someday I can be a cop, and with practice maybe as good as my boy in Quincy, then it would all be crystal clear. Until then I suppose i'm just talking outta my ass.


Posted by: Pvt. Cowboy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killjoy
Citizens on Patrol! I love it!!
A la Police Academy 4?

...or CMPSA? I had to... sorry...


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbelichick
As long as Pittsburgh loses, I am happy.
We agree on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbelichick
Wouldn't be bad to see a local boy (Hasselbeck) do well either.
Don't forget Lofa Tatupu, Mosi's kid.


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfman
Until then I suppose i'm just talking outta my ass.
Indeed, you are.


Posted by: Wolfman

Thnaks. I feel better now. Have fun in your bubble.


Posted by: j809

Why is everyone in such an uproar anyways? Are you policy makers, are you high ranking members of the MSP or Chiefs in LECs? All this getting upset over nothing, because everyone will continue to do what they are doing ,regardless of the what we patrol people think and bitch about on this forum. I can understand that everyone here is proud of their agency and have some bad feelings ,but really, we are just about a dozen people on this message forum and going back and forth on the same issue. One is a television repairman for god's sake. Let's just chill and get along. Stay Safe!


Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:
Originally Posted by j809
One is a television repairman for god's sake.
PLEASE tell me you're not that naive.


Posted by: j809

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbelichick
PLEASE tell me you're not that naive.
I know better, I am just kidding.


Posted by: Wolfman

Actually, I'm an ordained minister. No kidding.


Posted by: GARDA

The State/Local relationship has been, and will continue to be, symbiotic in nature. However, what's the point in letting another agency "rent space up in your head"?
For example, "Poaching"...Give me a break. And attitudes like, "We'll call you if we need you"... Honestly, WTF!

I've been on both teams, and have an open mind about the various arguments on this thread, but come on all. That's some bitter, deep seated envy and resentment posted here. What gives some of you so much heartburn about the other?

As a local, my responsibilities included patrolling EVERY square mile in the town, where two major highways also intersected. You'll never hear me apologize for generating the occasional arrest on the highway, or gripe about booking the occasional crash up there either...WHY?...Because it was shared jurisdiction. And you sure as hell won't hear me apologize now for enjoying the freedom of statewide jurisdiction when I generate some proactive criminal enforcement activity off of the big road in your city or town as a Trooper...WHY?...Because it is shared jurisdiction. Neither scenario is poaching, the only issue here is whether you are welcome there or not...check your attitude on that point.

When delayed, most decent guys in this profession will just ask you to hold onto the pertinent info (invest or accident) until they get there, and then will step-up and relieve your pain by handling it themselves, I will always offer to do that. Try it sometimes, it's called doing the right thing.

Let's face it, there will be times when another agency might need you to respond to something which they are unable to execute due to availability or exigency: Some of it Good Shit, and Some Bad, (for example: An unmarked DEA unit requests assistance in stopping a car travelling on/in your road/city which is known to them to be operated by a gun carrying felon in possession of several kilos of cocaine), are you going to cry foul and pout about having to get involved? I think not. Such is the nature of the beast, roll with it...Stay safe all.


Posted by: MSP75

Well said. This thread should be left at that.


Posted by: chief801

Thank you Garda! A sure sign that there is intelligent life here on Police Planet.


Posted by: bbelichick

Good enough.




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