Firearms in Court for Campus POs

Why is that a surprise to you? They will not allow EPO's in to Court with guns either. Stupid rules made by Stupid people.

On a lighter note, What exactly is Forearms Trainig?

Originally Posted by 263fpd

On a lighter note, What exactly is Forearms Trainig?

..........

Originally Posted by 263fpd

Why is that a surprise to you? They will not allow EPO's in to Court with guns either. Stupid rules made by Stupid people.

On a lighter note, What exactly is Forearms Trainig?

Here is something for forearms training!

Originally Posted by USMCMP5811

..........

Holy shit. LMFAO. I'm in fucking tears. If I could hit thanks on this post a 1000 times I would. (That would probably train my forearms.)

Imagine if you will, NO POLICE OFFICER is allowed a gun in court and somehow some nut manages to sneak one in. He then holds the judge hostage and NO ONE CAN SAVE THE JUDGE until a SWAT team can be assembled.

They'd argue that didn't count. 263 summed it up best-Stupid rules made by Stupid people.

Originally Posted by Kilvinsky

Imagine if you will, NO POLICE OFFICER is allowed a gun in court and somehow some nut manages to sneak one in. He then holds the judge hostage and NO ONE CAN SAVE THE JUDGE until a SWAT team can be assembled.

They'd argue that didn't count. 263 summed it up best-Stupid rules made by Stupid people.

Eff the judge

Originally Posted by Kilvinsky

Imagine if you will, NO POLICE OFFICER is allowed a gun in court and somehow some nut manages to sneak one in. He then holds the judge hostage and NO ONE CAN SAVE THE JUDGE until a SWAT team can be assembled.

They'd argue that didn't count. 263 summed it up best-Stupid rules made by Stupid people.

Me: 3 years on the job. Firearms Instructor. Black Belt. ---> and I turn in my firearm.
Person I know: 1 year on the job. Useless. Fat. a 'Code White' mindset at all times. Part-Timer for my town. Come on In!!!

It's cool though. I just have to laugh... or I'll choke someone.

I think it's fair to say we lost the battle, but the war is not over. MACLEA made a great argument, and NECOPS and a few independent groups offered support. Now we need to come up with a plan to force a change in current policy. We are in the early stages of that planning process, but we are considering filing a Bill to allow ALL licensed and qualified LE officers to carry in court during official business. If and when that plan becomes reality, I hope everybody will jump on board and support the cause!

According to this rule, no Housing, Enviornmental, nor Campus Police can carry within the court. It also reads that if you are a town or municipal cop in court (on official business) outside of your jurisdiction i.e. Dedham cop in West Roxbury court they have to disarm as well. Crazy!

SSPO. I will send you a copy of the document later tonight or in the morning.

A couple of our guys refuse to go in the courts now, one guy just showed up and said, "drop the case" another just turned around and walked out. I wonder how this is going to fair? Atleast our administration is backing us completely regarding this matter.

Originally Posted by Thatsright

SSPO. I will send you a copy of the document later tonight or in the morning.

A couple of our guys refuse to go in the courts now, one guy just showed up and said, "drop the case" another just turned around and walked out. I wonder how this is going to fair? Atleast our administration is backing us completely regarding this matter.

That whole attitude about the cases just because they want you to disarm, is rather ridiculous. While I agree with you that if you are PO regardless of what kind of PO you are, disarming in court is a stupid rule, the actions of your guys are wrong. If people act like primadonnas and get their panties in a bunch because of the rules, oh well. Then don't make arrests and be a security guard. The rule is stupid. You probably have the same academy as I do. Boycoting your court cases because of the rule shows lack of proffesionalism. If you feel demeaned walking in to court in your uniform with an empty holster on your belt, then wear a suit. That way the dirtbags have no way of knowing if you are armed or not.

System needs to change it's rules. When the guys you work with, get upset and tell the DA to "drop the case", all it does is that it makes them look like children who want to take their ball and go home just because they can't get it their way.

I am on your side here, believe me. I have and SPO background and a brief stint with Boston College back in the late 80's and early '90 as a part timer. This rule sucks, but guess what? That's fucking life.

Originally Posted by 263fpd

That whole attitude about the cases just because they want you to disarm, is rather ridiculous. While I agree with you that if you are PO regardless of what kind of PO you are, disarming in court is a stupid rule, the actions of your guys are wrong. If people act like primadonnas and get their panties in a bunch because of the rules, oh well. Then don't make arrests and be a security guard. The rule is stupid. You probably have the same academy as I do. Boycoting your court cases because of the rule shows lack of proffesionalism. If you feel demeaned walking in tpo cpourt in your uniform with an empty holster on your belt, then wear a suit. That way the dirtbags have no way of knowing if you are armed or not.

System needs to change it's rules. When the guys you work with, get upset and tell the DA to "drop the case", all it does is that it makes them look like children who want to take their ball and go home just because they can't get it their way.

I am on your side here, believe me. I have and SPO background and a brief stint with Boston College back in the late 80's and early '90 as a part timer. This rule sucks, but guess what? That's fucking life.

+1 FPD great post.

Where I work our guys where pissed as well, but when they need to go to court they will just go with the suit.

Originally Posted by 263fpd

Boycoting your court cases because of the rule shows lack of proffesionalism.

I couldn't disagree more.

The rules will never change unless someone challenges them, and letting some court cases go south does just that. The only thing I would recommend is dropping a dime to the local newspaper, because sunlight is the best disinfectant.

Originally Posted by Roy Fehler

The rules will never change unless someone challenges them, and letting some court cases go south does just that. The only thing I would recommend is dropping a dime to the local newspaper, because sunlight is the best disinfectant.

2 EPO's did just that. Refused to turn over their firearm to a white shirt and continued into court. Both were brought up on charges by thier own management.

Originally Posted by Tuna

2 EPO's did just that. Refused to turn over their firearm to a white shirt and continued into court. Both were brought up on charges by thier own management.

That's fucked up!

Originally Posted by USMCMP5811

That's fucked up!

You got that right

Originally Posted by Roy Fehler

I couldn't disagree more.

The rules will never change unless someone challenges them, and letting some court cases go south does just that. The only thing I would recommend is dropping a dime to the local newspaper, because sunlight is the best disinfectant.

I normaly agee with everything that you post. In this case the point I want to make is simple. Judges sould give a shit if a case goes south. These rules are not the fault of the Distict Attorney's office. The only peope that come out winning here, are the deffendant and his lawyer. Boycoting the case will not change the rules imposed by the judges and the court security big wigs. Why bother arresting and/or charging someone with a crime if all you are going to do is not follow through with the case? This stupid rule needs to change. I know it is stupid because even I had experienced it. Here is my example, and any municipal PO who had to at one time or another go to Cambridge Suprior about ten years ago or so will attest to this.

Seems that the Chief Justice at Middlesex Superior had an issue with guns being in possession of any one other then the "Middlesex Police" i.e. Middlsex Deputy Sheriffs assigned to the Court House. In aproximately 1998, I had about one year or so on the job and I did not know about this rule. I was giving testimony at motions hearing in a homicide case. It was a public hearing and the court room was filled with families of the deffendants and the victim. There were also members of the press there, our local paper, the Herald and if I recall correctly, several local news stations. This was a pretty brutal murder that occured during the Thanksgiving week of 1997. I was about fifteen minutes in to the testimony on direct. If anyone is familiar with this court, you are seated during your testimony there. At one point, I was asked to stand for some reason and the presiding judge, Regina Quinland, interupted the process and for everyone to hear asked me "Officer, are you wearing a gun in my court room?" Well ofcourse I was, what else could I say but "Yes." At that time, she summoned the "Middlesex Police" and I was escorted to their inner sanctum where I was made to disarm. It was fucking embarassing. What was I suppised to do? Should I have refused to give testimony?

Incidentally, do not forget that if you walk out and decide no to testify, a bench warrant can be issued for you just as easily as for some Joe Blow. In the end, do what you want to do, but pick your battles carefully.

On a side note Court Security making EPO's disarm is just crazy. This is a State LE agency. I would love to know what is the real reason that this is happening to the EPO's and for that matter CPO's.

In plain simple language the leftest liberal judges in MA all suck and they
are in control.
Until there is a shootout in a courtroom and one of them are killed nothing will
change in this state.

Originally Posted by kwflatbed

In plain simple language the leftest liberal judges in MA all suck and they
are in control.
Until there is a shootout in a courtroom and one of them are killed nothing will
change in this state.

Exactly right KW. Thank you.

I agree 263fdp, I wouldn't drop cases, nor would our agency be happy if we did that. I do now go in a suit, I have to keep one in my locker in the event I am just dropping off charges for an arrest that occured the night before. The funny thing is, that I don't think the court officers actually care. If I walk in in uniform or plain clothes I can't go through the police entrance. If I am in uniform they take my gun, if I'm in plain clothes with my ID, they just waive me through. For all they know I could be carrying concealed. I wouldn't want to test this as heads would role if an unauthorized weapon was found. The MACLEA case would be set back undoubtedly.